Let The Methow Herd Destruction Begin

[wsmnut]

I think Fitkin has lately been using a strategy of "managed results".  He reports success rates relative to the number of hunters.  So it's always good!  That will work for him right down to the last doe.
     I am almost looking forward to the annual BS blast from him contained in the Methow Valley News.  Should be an article quoting him out Thursday.  Or maybe next week reporting on this weekends marvelous success rate.

" The hunters asked for a longer season, we heard their requests and answered. As a result the success rate has been marvelous and the herd looks to have rebounded nicely from last year's fires and emergency management decisions."

I rest my case!

[huntnphool]

I think Fitkin has lately been using a strategy of "managed results".  He reports success rates relative to the number of hunters.  So it's always good!  That will work for him right down to the last doe.
     I am almost looking forward to the annual BS blast from him contained in the Methow Valley News.  Should be an article quoting him out Thursday.  Or maybe next week reporting on this weekends marvelous success rate.

" The hunters asked for a longer season, we heard their requests and answered. As a result the success rate has been marvelous and the herd looks to have rebounded nicely from last year's fires and emergency management decisions."

I rest my case!

 It's a hypothetical.

[wsmnut]

Good one.
Too many late nights...

[Bean Counter]

It's a management tool Bean, and in this case I'd say it's like using a sledge hammer to tighten the little screw coming lose on your eyeglasses.  Wrong tool at the wrong time.

There ya go! 

Ok gotcha.

Again, I didn't read this whole discussion and know jack squat about wildlife management, so most of my knowledge is conjecture and such.

I had the understanding that buck deer much like bull elk can only 'service' so many does and if say the ratio is 1:10 or more diluted than that then there's a surplus of does, so to speak. if some wouldn't be bred anyway, my guess is that the herd growth wouldn't be affected to sell a few doe permit here and there. Not sure where that fits into the discussion with the Methow herd if at all.

[bigmacc]

I haven't read all the comments and largely don't know wildlife biology, but I'm wondering if doe permits are always idiotic or just in the case of the Methow herd? My buddy and I just killed half a dozen antlerless animals in addition to our bucks in Wyoming, and I'd hate to think I'm a part of a decline in future opportunity.

IMHO, I don't think they are "idiotic"all together,for instance my daughter and her family live in Kentucky where the population has to be kept in check by doe harvests(I think they get a handful of does and 1 buck every year ), some states have areas with thriving,growing deer populations and can pull the plug on doe harvests if the pops decline for any number of reasons. Whats got a lot of us here scratching our heads about the Methow is numbers are no where near what they were even 10 years ago and seem to continue to get worse,as I said earlier, a 20-30 thousand head  decline since its glory days a few decades ago. The deer numbers there are simply in a tailspin for a whole lot of reasons and doe tags continue to be issued, that's whats frustrating a lot of us...

Maybe, just maybe those glory days weren't sustainable.  Too many hunters have unreal expectations based off of past numbers that can't be sustained. Instead of expecting all seasons to mirror all time highs, maybe we should just be thankful for them when they happen and enjoy it, but have more realistic expectations for the average years. Game populations are never static. Without management, they go from great highs to great lows. All good management does is take out the big swings if done properly. But there are also events that are out of the hands of managers. Extreme winter events, fires, drought, urban creep, etc.  Sometimes hunters expect too much. It's very possible that those glory years you are talking about are responsible for the direction the herd is going now. When habitat is stressed it can even affect the breeding success of the herds. Instead of throwing twins, does will have one or maybe even be barren if they aren't getting the right nutrition.

But my original point on people drawing tags they have no intention of using is that the largest contributing factor of a shrinking hunter base is lack of opportunity and loss of access. It gets to the point where people will just give up. Hunters don't help that by taking away opportunity from other hunters no matter how well intentioned their reasons for doing it. Doe hunts can be fun and encouraging to young and new hunters.  If the managers decide there is a reason to have doe hunts, then I'm all for people getting the opportunity.

Sitka, I don't think anyone expects this herd to get back to its "glory days", that is unrealistic IMO. I used those numbers to show you what this herd was at one time and to show you the extent of the decline. Those numbers were pretty consistant(give or take) for a long time, the range sustained the herd fine. As I said in another post, we all know there are factors contributing to "swings" and decreases from time to time and no one said or expects that herd to hold consistently at 30 to 40 thousand animals(come on!) but a lot of folks who know this valley and have put in a lot of time and put a lot of miles in it (which you said you have not)  see the continued tail spin in the herd, along with a population boom in a whole assortment of predators! This just didn't happen yesterday, its not something that was noticed in the last couple years its been ongoing over the last decade or so at least and every year we are seeing less and less deer in prime areas that should hold deer and HAVE held deer for a hundred years. What management,s  been doing to stop the decline and help the herd through "swings" and a long term, consistant decrease in numbers, you guessed it- kill more does! As bone said "wrong tool at the wrong time". If this mindset by management continues  don't for a second blame the folks who are not using there doe tags for a "lack of opportunity" or a "shrinking hunter base" because there may not be enough deer to hunt for any one, bucks or does....as always, my opinion and my

[bigmacc]

That used to be my dating strategy.... "lower your standards and up your odds!"

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[WAcoueshunter]

Curious what the harvest rates have done over the last several years.  Given the apparent decline in the herd, I assume harvest rates have seen an equal decline?    I remember it being pretty tough going many moons ago when I hunted out of Twisp and Winthrop as a kid in the mid 80's.  I recall harvest rates in the 15-20% range back then, not sure what they are now.  I assume less than 10%? 

[boneaddict]

Good one.
Too many late nights...

Don't feel bad, it was quite believable.     In fact, I bet he uses it. Lol

[Chad Osterholtz]

That used to be my dating strategy.... "lower your standards and up your odds!"

HA! That's how I met my first wife!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Curious what the harvest rates have done over the last several years.  Given the apparent decline in the herd, I assume harvest rates have seen an equal decline?    I remember it being pretty tough going many moons ago when I hunted out of Twisp and Winthrop as a kid in the mid 80's.  I recall harvest rates in the 15-20% range back then, not sure what they are now.  I assume less than 10%?

From the Department's District 6 Hunting Prospects. http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/prospects/2015/district06.pdf

In 2014
"General season hunters harvested 2780 deer from the ten game management units comprising District 6. This represents an increase of
35% over the 2013 season despite the disruptive effects of the Carlton Complex Fire. Similarly, general season success rates improved noticeably as well and ended up as follows: Modern – 20%, Muzzleloader – 28%, Archery – 33%, and Mulit – 31%." 

Additionally........

"Prospects for mule deer look excellent this year.  Better than average recruitment in recent years indicates a growing herd, and
high buck escapement observed during surveys last winter means hunters should have good opportunities to harvest older age class bucks.    The end date for the general modern firearm season is the latest it’s been in years, so mule deer may begin migrating toward winter range
(southerly facing slopes at lower elevations) during the later portion of that season.  If so, this will start to concentrate deer in more accessible areas and improve hunters chances of locating legal bucks."

[grundy53]

Was there a drop in hunter numbers?

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[Bob33]

From the Department's District 6 Hunting Prospects. http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/prospects/2015/district06.pdf

In 2014
Mulit – 31%." 

Damn. Guess I need to grow one.

[huntnphool]

From the Department's District 6 Hunting Prospects. http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/prospects/2015/district06.pdf

In 2014
Mulit – 31%." 

Damn. Guess I need to grow one.

 

[bigmacc]

From the Department's District 6 Hunting Prospects. http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/prospects/2015/district06.pdf
 
In 2014
Mulit – 31%." 

Damn. Guess I need to grow one.

 

Must of been the Joe Dirt crew, heard they had a heck of a year... 

[bigmacc]

Curious what the harvest rates have done over the last several years.  Given the apparent decline in the herd, I assume harvest rates have seen an equal decline?    I remember it being pretty tough going many moons ago when I hunted out of Twisp and Winthrop as a kid in the mid 80's.  I recall harvest rates in the 15-20% range back then, not sure what they are now.  I assume less than 10%?

From the Department's District 6 Hunting Prospects. http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/prospects/2015/district06.pdf

In 2014
"General season hunters harvested 2780 deer from the ten game management units comprising District 6. This represents an increase of
35% over the 2013 season despite the disruptive effects of the Carlton Complex Fire. Similarly, general season success rates improved noticeably as well and ended up as follows: Modern – 20%, Muzzleloader – 28%, Archery – 33%, and Mulit – 31%." 

Additionally........

"Prospects for mule deer look excellent this year.  Better than average recruitment in recent years indicates a growing herd, and
high buck escapement observed during surveys last winter means hunters should have good opportunities to harvest older age class bucks.    The end date for the general modern firearm season is the latest it’s been in years, so mule deer may begin migrating toward winter range
(southerly facing slopes at lower elevations) during the later portion of that season.  If so, this will start to concentrate deer in more accessible areas and improve hunters chances of locating legal bucks."

Sitka, "I got some,ocean front property in Arizona....and if you,ll buy that I,ll throw the Golden gate in free"....love George Straight....so does the dept. I,m guessing!...at least as far as the Methow is concerned ...And hey, We got some tags for sale too! Hurry they wont last long! Get em while their hot! Set it and forget it!......Are they possibly selling us an old fashioned "bill of goods"?..