Blacktail 3pt or better unit????s

[fordpowerforever]

I was wondering what people think of balcktail 3pt or better units would be? i would love to see one on the peninsula. i know there is a lot of meat hunters that will argue against it but there is a ton of open land on all the other units out here. The dickey would work good cause a large chunk is permit only hunting already. It would be a low harvest for the first few years but after that it would begin to produce some good deer. i know there is a lot of pros and cons to this. It would be cool if anybody had biologist info on how it would turn out. I think the peninsula definately produces some of the smaller blacktail bucks around and maybe something like this could help things out. The meat hunters would be mad at first but after a few years when they can kill a much better buck and get a lot more meat maybe they would be onboard with it.

[JBar]

State just had this in their last questionaire, seems the data doesn't support even the 2pt restriction. 

[fordpowerforever]

State just had this in their last questionaire, seems the data doesn't support even the 2pt restriction. 

im no biologist so i guess they know better but it sure seems like there would be a lot more quality deer would show up if people couldn't just blast as soon as they seen an inch of horn, and maybe have quality bucks breeding the does instead of some dink have no competition. 

[BOWHUNTER45]

You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail 

[chester]

Hold off the trigger when you see the little ones. Big bucks are all over the west side. You just have to find them.


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[Boss .300 winmag]

You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail 

Some units are hurting, SAUK, STILLAGUMISH,NOOKSACK, plus others I can imagine. I know you have a good area but others are way low on population. 

Atleast stop doe, and late season tags. Even with gated roads and stuff these deer are taken a beating in these units . My thought is way to many preditors, plus poaching.

[fordpowerforever]

You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail 

i would be plenty fine for 2pt also, i just think a place for people that want the challenge of chasing mature blacktails with a little but better odds would be cool. I know how hard it is to find, them 19 years for me and i still havent got a 3 point yet. and i pass up a lot of smaller bucks every year. trying my best to get the best chance possible at a big buck. I have just seen from my dads hunting lease how well the buck population grows when the spikes and small two points arent taken out every year.

[fordpowerforever]

Hold off the trigger when you see the little ones. Big bucks are all over the west side. You just have to find them.


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your area has much better buck quality then here, i have passed up many spikes and two points, i have passed a spike everyday ive hunted in modern this year, and one two point, about 4 years ago i knew i had to stop shooting small ones to get the big one...

[BOWHUNTER45]

You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail 

Some units are hurting, SAUK, STILLAGUMISH,NOOKSACK, plus others I can imagine. I know you have a good area but others are way low on population. 

Atleast stop doe, and late season tags. Even with gated roads and stuff these deer are taken a beating in these units . My thought is way to many preditors, plus poaching.

There are deer in those units you have mentioned that you will never see until late season ..that's why I am a bowhunter Minus the Nooksack ..that is hunted non stop from tribal hunting ..No sense in trying to find a deer there and there are poachers too ..I better not just pick on my tribal friends !

[chester]

I've passed 8 deer this year. And got a glimpse of one really nice buck I watched all summer on opening morning. I left him alone since then and I'm going to try again tomorrow to see if his I. Q. Had lowered. They aren't dumb. Just because they aren't standing out in the open doesn't mean they aren't there.
Btw what's my area for BT ? I've hunted them from lake Stevens to the Columbia river along with the peninsula. There is big bucks all over. Just have to be lucky enough to catch them making a mistake. The odds are very much in their favor. It's not something more restrictions are going to change.


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[334OKH]

When you talk of meat hunters wanting to shoot whatever is legal. I think even the meat hunters would like a mature buck that weighs so much more than a spike or immature 3 point. It takes education and proving this to them. I remember very well how upset I was when the state went to Bull Elk restrictions. I was 18 or so at the time and just didn't get it. Now look at the Elk we are seeing every year.  I also feel we need to create some better habitat. Areas where logging has ceased has ruined the deer population as well. That's what I see in the areas I hunt.

[BOWHUNTER45]

When you talk of meat hunters wanting to shoot whatever is legal. I think even the meat hunters would like a mature buck that weighs so much more than a spike or immature 3 point. It takes education and proving this to them. I remember very well how upset I was when the state went to Bull Elk restrictions. I was 18 or so at the time and just didn't get it. Now look at the Elk we are seeing every year.  I also feel we need to create some better habitat. Areas where logging has ceased has ruined the deer population as well. That's what I see in the areas I hunt.

You nailed that one ( where logging has ceased) LOGGING MEANS DEER 

[finnman]

I am against all antler point restrictions where there are large areas of easy to access lands for tribal harvest to occur. Why should some people be penalized by this type of regulation to only have those deer harvested by others who do not play by the rules?
Makes no sense to me, and believe me, I know not everything is fair in life.
If it were Eastern and Central Washington, like the Palouse and other farming areas, absolutely use them.

[mtman]

I don't think it makes sense for most blacktail country. Those big bucks are there they are just hard to find and then kill.I Shed hunt Washougal unit (any buck) and Also West klickitat (3 point). I have found some nice 60 to 70 inch sheds in both. There are big bucks in both its just one area is harder to hunt them then the other. I think the point restriction just makes more average size deer, or barely legal 3 points and giant 2 points.

[dreamunelk]

Point restrictions make sense on the OP.    Black tails have evolved to have small antlers for a reason.  That is why many never get bigger than a 2 point.

[fordpowerforever]

I've passed 8 deer this year. And got a glimpse of one really nice buck I watched all summer on opening morning. I left him alone since then and I'm going to try again tomorrow to see if his I. Q. Had lowered. They aren't dumb. Just because they aren't standing out in the open doesn't mean they aren't there.
Btw what's my area for BT ? I've hunted them from lake Stevens to the Columbia river along with the peninsula. There is big bucks all over. Just have to be lucky enough to catch them making a mistake. The odds are very much in their favor. It's not something more restrictions are going to change.


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Chester, no offense i meant your area listed. i know there is big bucks all over, i have seen two nice bucks this year, one just last sundaym i hoping the same thing, that he is starting to dumb up a bit.

Back on topic with everyone,  im just thinking it would be nice to hunt a unit knowing your odds a little better if your willing to do the work. my dad has been hunting blacktails for 50+ years and has killed a handfuls of decent bucks in his time and missed opportunities (back in the 2x7 power days) on a few. But only one wall hanger, but on here you will see a lot more bucks coming from more inland areas that people say are decent BT bucks but around here would be large and something to be very proud of. The reports for our area are down and i dont want to start a debate about but it says in the olympic peninsula units the local tribes said they would lower the anterless killing and i recently talked to a lifetime indian friend, avid hunter, and now training to be a wildlife officier for the tribe and he had heard nothing about it. We have no anterless tags offered over here due to our population so maybe a point restriction will at least give the deer a boost in numbers to get back on the rebound...then in turn start to produce higher number of quality bucks.   

[JimmyHoffa]

I would think Pysht would be better than Dickey.  More deer that are 3 pt or larger, so more people could still fill tags.

[Hunterman]

Just what we need..More restrictions in this state. Leave it as it is, as far as I'm concerned the state can remove ALL the point restrictions state wide for deer and elk.

Hunterman(Tony) 

[Jonathan_S]

Just what we need..More restrictions in this state. Leave it as it is, as far as I'm concerned the state can remove ALL the point restrictions state wide for deer and elk.

Hunterman(Tony)

Are you serious?

   you might be in denial about the amount of hunters we have in this state   

I'm not saying that all APRs are good but what you suggest would wreck virtually every elk herd and mule deer herd.

[lokidog]

Point restrictions make sense on the OP.    Black tails have evolved to have small antlers for a reason.  That is why many never get bigger than a 2 point.

So put a 3 point restriction on them? Huh?? 

I wouldn't mind seeing no spikes allowed, but that is as far as I would go.  Here a 2 1/2 year old fork has, on average, ten more pounds of meat than a 1 1/2 year old spike.

[Jonathan_S]

   That's the thing

A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5.  I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.

[billythekidrock]

I have stated this before. I would not support a minimum on blacktails unless first time hunters, youth, seniors and disabled could still shoot spikes.

There are plenty of big bucks out there, just not enough areas that are easy to hunt.

[MountainWalk]

If you think the OP lacks big bucks, your not looking hard enough. Blacktails are harder to kill than mulies and WT"s by natures design. Just because your seeing lots of spikes is no reason to hinder everyone else.  Theres a reason why people see lots of spikes and forks and not fours. You think a point change will cause mature deer to stand about in the open to be shot up?

[lokidog]

  That's the thing

A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5.  I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.

No "bucks" are being harvested at less than 1.5 years, they would be antlerless in their first year. 

BTKR, I would have no problems with spikes for youth, senior, or disabled.   

[billythekidrock]

If you think the OP lacks big bucks, your not looking hard enough. Blacktails are harder to kill than mulies and WT"s by natures design. Just because your seeing lots of spikes is no reason to hinder everyone else.  Theres a reason why people see lots of spikes and forks and not fours. You think a point change will cause mature deer to stand about in the open to be shot up?

Exactly. And once the first year of restrictions is over the success rate will be the same or lower.

[Jonathan_S]

  That's the thing

A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5.  I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.

No "bucks" are being harvested at less than 1.5 years, they would be antlerless in their first year. 

BTKR, I would have no problems with spikes for youth, senior, or disabled.

  good catch, I don't know why I typed 1.5/2.5 instead of 2.5/3.5

[actionshooter]

Blacktail are different than our other deer, just because you don't see the big guys doesn't mean they aren't there.
 The only thing point restrictions would do on the west side is make a bunch of hunters quit because they never see anything but spikes and forkys.

[Jonathan_S]

  That's the thing

A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5.  I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.

No "bucks" are being harvested at less than 1.5 years, they would be antlerless in their first year. 

BTKR, I would have no problems with spikes for youth, senior, or disabled.

Oops, yeah that's what I meant.  I meant 2.5/3.5

[lokidog]

 

[billythekidrock]

Blacktail are different than our other deer, just because you don't see the big guys doesn't mean they aren't there.
 The only thing point restrictions would do on the west side is make a bunch of hunters quit because they never see anything but spikes and forkys.

 

[MountainWalk]

If you think the OP lacks big bucks, your not looking hard enough. Blacktails are harder to kill than mulies and WT"s by natures design. Just because your seeing lots of spikes is no reason to hinder everyone else.  Theres a reason why people see lots of spikes and forks and not fours. You think a point change will cause mature deer to stand about in the open to be shot up?

[Mike450r]

Too hard to be certain of anything more than a branched buck at distance with the smaller blacktail antlers and the ferns and brush they like to be in.  Too many times it would be impossible to be positive of 3 points,  not a good idea.

[blackveltbowhunter]

   I agree, BT numbers are down all over the westside in any area that is not close to an urban center, Then stud bucks are on every street corner. But IMO point restriction isn't the answer. I know many, many hunters who self impose point restrictions and it hasn't helped numbers at all. Very few spikes or small forks are harvested in these areas yet numbers fall, and big bucks don't really increase.

  Your comparison of your Dads lease area, is not really apples to apples because in addition to self imposed point restrictions, they are probably harvesting less deer period due to less pressure. Even bucks that are older age class are getting a pass simply because they are not getting hunted as hard.

  For the record I am against any reduction in opportunity, until a reasonable effort is made to control PREDATORS and improve habitat. That said, if you want to have more bucks and bigger bucks, close the season tomorrow and keep it that way for few years and see what happens. Buck escapement is what gives you your older age class bucks and in the next 9 days ( including late buck ) many of the 2.5 and 3.5 age class will hit dirt.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail 

i would be plenty fine for 2pt also, i just think a place for people that want the challenge of chasing mature blacktails with a little but better odds would be cool. I know how hard it is to find, them 19 years for me and i still havent got a 3 point yet. and i pass up a lot of smaller bucks every year. trying my best to get the best chance possible at a big buck. I have just seen from my dads hunting lease how well the buck population grows when the spikes and small two points arent taken out every year.

Finding a big blaktail is already a challenge. You seem to want to take the challenge out of the equation and make it easier.

[Turner89]

If you think the OP lacks big bucks, your not looking hard enough. Blacktails are harder to kill than mulies and WT"s by natures design. Just because your seeing lots of spikes is no reason to hinder everyone else.  Theres a reason why people see lots of spikes and forks and not fours. You think a point change will cause mature deer to stand about in the open to be shot up?

Exactly. And once the first year of restrictions is over the success rate will be the same or lower.

I don't think point restrictions on blacktail will make any difference on success rates of bigger bucks. You may have more bigger bucks out there as a result, but they won't be taken any easier than you can today. They turn into loners the older they get, and disappear for the most part during most the year. I rarely see big mature bucks in the woods, until last week of October- December. I've been hunting them for 20+ years in 448, and haven't noticed any real decline in deer #'s. Some years are better than others, but I feel that has more to do with a lack of logging than predators, or over hunting.
  Point restrictions on blacktail IMO would do absolutely nothing, but possibly frustrate new hunters to the point of giving up.