I hate to open this can again but.....

[RadSav]

I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

It's obviously not as important to you as it is me. When I watch something that is very important to me get abused thus creating negative affects on the herd as a whole, it becomes my number one concern. I don't feel you're seeing true problem here, but merely standing up for the majority in your shoes.

Not exactly sure what my shoes have to do with anything, but you are right that I am not seeing a problem here.  I look at harvest rates, deer numbers and deer quality harvests and don't see where baiting is a big enough issue to have had an effect.  So many other things such as predation, open range bovine, weather and fire seem to effect as much if not more.  And the whole sticky label thing that gets pooped out and passed by the deer...I've never seen a label in poo or in the woods.  And spending as much time as I have in the woods I expect that isn't as big a huge environmental disaster as it is portrayed.  Could it effect one property owner along side another?  Well, perhaps!  But, as a statewide issue?  I doubt it has much of an effect on the price of my shoes either way!

[Jonathan_S]

I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

It's obviously not as important to you as it is me. When I watch something that is very important to me get abused thus creating negative affects on the herd as a whole, it becomes my number one concern. I don't feel you're seeing true problem here, but merely standing up for the majority in your shoes.

So...bingo...make baiting illegal for the whole d@mn state.  I'm not saying that the NCW Mule Deer herd doesn't deserve your representation but that's not how we should fix problems in 2-3 GMUs.

[MtnMuley]

I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

It's obviously not as important to you as it is me. When I watch something that is very important to me get abused thus creating negative affects on the herd as a whole, it becomes my number one concern. I don't feel you're seeing true problem here, but merely standing up for the majority in your shoes.

So...bingo...make baiting illegal for the whole d@mn state.  I'm not saying that the NCW Mule Deer herd doesn't deserve your representation but that's not how we should fix problems in 2-3 GMUs.

I never said baiting should be banned as a whole. I have zero problem with 90% of it if it's the way you choose to hunt. I could really care less. Once again, when it has had a very negative affect in a few certain areas, I will fully support an adaption to the rule.

[vandeman17]

I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

It's obviously not as important to you as it is me. When I watch something that is very important to me get abused thus creating negative affects on the herd as a whole, it becomes my number one concern. I don't feel you're seeing true problem here, but merely standing up for the majority in your shoes.

So...bingo...make baiting illegal for the whole d@mn state.  I'm not saying that the NCW Mule Deer herd doesn't deserve your representation but that's not how we should fix problems in 2-3 GMUs.

I never said baiting should be banned as a whole. I have zero problem with 90% of it if it's the way you choose to hunt. I could really care less. Once again, when it has had a very negative affect in a few certain areas, I will fully support an adaption to the rule.

100% agree with you. 

[Jonathan_S]

I apologize if I've been reading your posts incorrectly.  Your view on the whole thing makes more sense to me now.

I will say that it doesn't matter much because I have an "inkling" that it will be a blanket-ban if anything.

[MtnMuley]

RadSav
"Not exactly sure what my shoes have to do with anything, but you are right that I am not seeing a problem here.  I look at harvest rates, deer numbers and deer quality harvests and don't see where baiting is a big enough issue to have had an effect.  So many other things such as predation, open range bovine, weather and fire seem to effect as much if not more.  And the whole sticky label thing that gets pooped out and passed by the deer...I've never seen a label in poo or in the woods.  And spending as much time as I have in the woods I expect that isn't as big a huge environmental disaster as it is portrayed.  Could it effect one property owner along side another?  Well, perhaps!  But, as a statewide issue?  I doubt it has much of an effect on the price of my shoes either way!"

If reading the harvest reports is your source of knowledge on the subject, then that's sad. Since you've spent so much time in the woods, tell us what you've noticed in Okanogan County during the November hunts?  Actually, have you ever even hunted here? Also, you might be cute with words, but since when has a fire, weather, open bovine, or predation been able to selectively target mature bucks in the times when they are most susceptible?

[elk247]

The mule deer herd isn't what it was 10 or even 5 years ago in ncw. That's across the board, so of course you've noticed a decrease in mature bucks. That being said predation, fires, loss of winter range, winterkill, poaching are all larger factors than hunters legally baiting and harvesting bucks. Just this year we had the largest fire, largest wolf population, largest loss of winter range, one of the largest poaching rings in the state busted, and now the largest doe hunt. That's just in Okanogen county. Your passion Mtmuley is understood and respected, I just belive there are much bigger contributing factors to the mule deer herd health as a whole. At this point I would agree that the mule deer need some time to recover, I don't think the state or it's biologists really care though based off the way things have been handled over the last decade

[lokidog]

MnM, where is your evidence?  Empirical data?  Studies?  If you don't like it in your area, get the county or city or whatever you live in to do something.  Why condone something that will effect the entire state?

Like I said, I see (or have heard) deer herds are hurting in the eastern part of the state, therefore I THINK ALL DEER HUNTING IN EASTERN WASHINGTON SHOULD BE PERMIT ONLY, ESPECIALLY IN OKANAGON COUNTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do all of you eastside hunters supporting baiting bans like that idea? 

[Seabass]

Some of you guys are missing the main point. I didn't bring this back up to start another poop storm over a topic that has been discussed to exhaustion.

I brought it up because PRESSURE TO IMPLEMENT THIS BAN CAME FROM HUNTERS!!

This one isn't coming from the anti's! The groundswell of this movement is from hunters and mostly a particular user group! I'm not going to name any names because I hate this sort of class warfare where we pit ourselves against one another.

The pressure on WDFW didn't come form liberals or lefties or coasties or any other slang term for a group you don't like. It started with your fellow hunters! That's the part that is the most depressing to me.

[MtnMuley]

I fully agree with what you've said elk247. All of those factors have had a big influence on the deer numbers here. However, with an already struggling herd, the harvesting of a very big percentage of mature migrating bucks during the end of November only hurts this herd more. When you see the messes left in the mountains and off road travel with a big competing between many to get their bins dumped off for their chance to give it a try, it gets irritating to those of us that respect the outdoors and the privilege to hunt. I'm certainly not the only one around tgis community that feels that way, and now with a chance to modify a rule to preserve a resource, we're all expressing our concerns.

[WARHORSE]

I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

It's obviously not as important to you as it is me. When I watch something that is very important to me get abused thus creating negative affects on the herd as a whole, it becomes my number one concern. I don't feel you're seeing true problem here, but merely standing up for the majority in your shoes.

Not exactly sure what my shoes have to do with anything, but you are right that I am not seeing a problem here.  I look at harvest rates, deer numbers and deer quality harvests and don't see where baiting is a big enough issue to have had an effect.  So many other things such as predation, open range bovine, weather and fire seem to effect as much if not more.  And the whole sticky label thing that gets pooped out and passed by the deer...I've never seen a label in poo or in the woods.  And spending as much time as I have in the woods I expect that isn't as big a huge environmental disaster as it is portrayed.  Could it effect one property owner along side another?  Well, perhaps!  But, as a statewide issue?  I doubt it has much of an effect on the price of my shoes either way!

I have seen piles of crap with apple stickers in it! I have hunted over bait i have killed deer over bait! Not my thing! I know first hand what baiting is all about, what it intails and how it effects the deer,  Unlike u You i wouldnt pop off about somthing i havnt seen first hand. If i knew nothing about the issue i would keep my mouth shut.

[MtnMuley]

MnM, where is your evidence?  Empirical data?  Studies?  If you don't like it in your area, get the county or city or whatever you live in to do something.  Why condone something that will effect the entire state?

Like I said, I see (or have heard) deer herds are hurting in the eastern part of the state, therefore I THINK ALL DEER HUNTING IN EASTERN WASHINGTON SHOULD BE PERMIT ONLY, ESPECIALLY IN OKANAGON COUNTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do all of you eastside hunters supporting baiting bans like that idea?

My evidence lies in the thousands of hours I spend in the hills here and what I see and know first hand, not what I've "heard". Apparently you've missed my point yet another time, as I nor anyone I know, condone any ban affecting the entire state.  Lastly your permit only to hunt the eastside would surely get my vote if it helped rebuild our deer herds.

[MtnMuley]

Some of you guys are missing the main point. I didn't bring this back up to start another poop storm over a topic that has been discussed to exhaustion.

I brought it up because PRESSURE TO IMPLEMENT THIS BAN CAME FROM HUNTERS!!

This one isn't coming from the anti's! The groundswell of this movement is from hunters and mostly a particular user group! I'm not going to name any names because I hate this sort of class warfare where we pit ourselves against one another.

The pressure on WDFW didn't come form liberals or lefties or coasties or any other slang term for a group you don't like. It started with your fellow hunters! That's the part that is the most depressing to me.

Please explain what you mean by its being brought on by a certain user group. I honestly have no idea whom you could mean. All I've done is merely respond my thoughts like many of you did to the game departments thoughts and comments section on some proposals. Some on here apparently think I've made a decision for WDFW strictly on my comments. I sure wish they'd actually listen to me, because we'd have a new bio starting tomorrow.

[Jonathan_S]

I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

It's obviously not as important to you as it is me. When I watch something that is very important to me get abused thus creating negative affects on the herd as a whole, it becomes my number one concern. I don't feel you're seeing true problem here, but merely standing up for the majority in your shoes.

Not exactly sure what my shoes have to do with anything, but you are right that I am not seeing a problem here.  I look at harvest rates, deer numbers and deer quality harvests and don't see where baiting is a big enough issue to have had an effect.  So many other things such as predation, open range bovine, weather and fire seem to effect as much if not more.  And the whole sticky label thing that gets pooped out and passed by the deer...I've never seen a label in poo or in the woods.  And spending as much time as I have in the woods I expect that isn't as big a huge environmental disaster as it is portrayed.  Could it effect one property owner along side another?  Well, perhaps!  But, as a statewide issue?  I doubt it has much of an effect on the price of my shoes either way!

I have seen piles of crap with apple stickers in it! I have hunted over bait i have killed deer over bait! Not my thing! I know first hand what baiting is all about, what it intails and how it effects the deer,  Unlike u You i wouldnt pop off about somthing i havnt seen first hand. If i knew nothing about the issue i would keep my mouth shut.

If you're looking for somebody to throw down with, RadSav isn't the right guy.  He has a nice way of turning animosity into light-hearted disagreement.  You have a nice way of word-vomiting about a volatile topic. 

Go ahead and keep making a WARHORSE's *censored* out of yourself though.

What does it intail?  (sic)

How does it effect (affect) the deer?  Other than when overused by a couple of outfitters.



(please avoid the use of profanity or intended profanity)

[RadSav]

Unlike u You i wouldnt pop off about somthing i havnt seen first hand. If i knew nothing about the issue i would keep my mouth shut.

And yet you know next to nothing about me and choose to voice an attack.  How is that not popping off or keeping your mouth shut about something you do not know first hand?