Building a mountain rifle

[PendingKarma2014]

So I have been contemplating building a heavy duty mountain rifle and I was considering the .300 RUM, but I have no experience with them, just alot of research so far.  What I do know is the recoil is like getting punched by a prize fighter, which is non-condusive to an extended shoot session. Do you guys have an suggestions for calibers with the performance statistics to par or better than the .300 RUM without all that umpff?

[Timberstalker]

What are you hunting?  Some may disagree but a 6.5x284 gets with it and has proven to be a long range monster. 

[PendingKarma2014]

What are you hunting?  Some may disagree but a 6.5x284 gets with it and has proven to be a long range monster.

North American big game mainly

[X-Force]

It sounds like your wanting to make more of a heavy rifle and less of a duty rifle IMO. When I think mountain I think lightweight, maneuverable, good glass and 500 or so range.

300RUM would be overkill... again IMO

Long action
280AI
6.5x284
300WM

Short action
260
300wsm
7mmwsm

Those would handle everything except maybe grizzlies
What action are you using? budget?

[PendingKarma2014]

Well, I have considerable experience with the Remington 700, and I have done some reading into a new variation that they have come up with called the LR. Seems to be an update of the Sendero. So when it comes to the rifle, I've already got that set in solid, I'm just hunting for an optimum caliber for hunting at 400-600 yards or more, and target shooting at 1000+.

[Curly]

Do you guys have any suggestions for calibers with the performance statistics to par or better than the .300 RUM without all that umpff?

It doesn't exist.  Just put a muzzle brake on it if you want less recoil and still want that performance. 

[jackelope]

Are you talking a long range rifle or a mountain rifle? Because that LR is not what I would call a mountain rifle at 9 pounds bare.
 

[whacker1]

Mountain Rifle to me means Alaska Dall Sheep, Mountain Goat, etc. where you are doing everything you can to shave weight.  6 1/2 lb gun in a 260-280 caliber of some kind. Maybe a 300WSM to stay in a short action.

My .300 RUM that I pack everywhere weight like 9 1/2 - 9 3/4 lbs.  I don't put that in a mountain rifle definition for a fresh build

[PendingKarma2014]

Mountain Rifle to me means Alaska Dall Sheep, Mountain Goat, etc. where you are doing everything you can to shave weight.  6 1/2 lb gun in a 260-280 caliber of some kind. Maybe a 300WSM to stay in a short action.

My .300 RUM that I pack everywhere weight like 9 1/2 - 9 3/4 lbs.  I don't put that in a mountain rifle definition for a fresh build

Yeah perhaps I used that out of context. Long range rifle would be a more appropriate term I suppose.

[fordpowerforever]

I absolutely love my 300 rum, if someone tells you they kick as hard you say, they are a wimp or a glass shoulder, 12 gauge with decent ammo hits harder. Mine is just the remington 700 SPSS, its lite weight and very maneuverable with a 26" barrel, a buddy has a new sendero in a 7mm rem mag, and its too heavy for my liking and i dont even backpack in the deep mountains. 300 rum can be a bit overkill for some stuff, especially if hit wrong, but mine flat puts stuff in the dirt with 180 grain sirroccos. Only a few have made a few steps. I always wanna buy a new rifles but just cant see packing anything but it. Its killed a pile of bears and blacktails....

[JackOfAllTrades]

To me... A mountain rifle weighs 6pounds or less. (with optics)   A long range rifle could be upwards of 12pounds. I carry a 10 pound rifle good for 450yds. (in my hands)  (funny... I keep killing things within pistol range though..)   That said, study recoil energy tables. There's a good recoil calculator here: http://handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp  It's all about mass, energy and velocity.  If you're shooting a 'mountain rifle' in any of the high velocity magnum cartridges, the only way to reduce felt recoil for range sessions is to shoot from a 'Lead Sled' or some such contraption. Otherwise, Man UP!  I will highly recommend a LimbSaver or Pachmayr Decelorator recoil pad for the lighter rifles. That said, all the velocity and down range impact energy in the world won't replace accuracy. If you can't hit it. None of the rest matters. There are some cartridges and calibers that are inherently more accurate than others. Study Ballistic Coefficients of different caliber bullets before you select a cartridge to deliver it from. Highly revered will be 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, and even .30cal for long range shooting. The 280ackley would be a great cal/cartridge without all the recoil of a 300Rum. Impact energy is less though. The 300win, 308Norma, 30-338wildcat would also be excellent choices if you want to shoot heavier projectiles.  There's nothing that a 7RemMag will do better than a 30-06 except fly flatter with a better BC, but you can't get a 210gn bullet for it. -Well, there is one more thing... It will punish your shoulder! Just like any RUM will.  My suggestion would be to settle on a cartridge first. Then build a rifle around that choice. As for accuracy... The only shot that counts is the first cold bore shot. Know where that one hits!
 
-Steve

[whacker1]

Mountain Rifle to me means Alaska Dall Sheep, Mountain Goat, etc. where you are doing everything you can to shave weight.  6 1/2 lb gun in a 260-280 caliber of some kind. Maybe a 300WSM to stay in a short action.

My .300 RUM that I pack everywhere weight like 9 1/2 - 9 3/4 lbs.  I don't put that in a mountain rifle definition for a fresh build

Yeah perhaps I used that out of context. Long range rifle would be a more appropriate term I suppose.

Ok, for long range....do you load your own?   assuming yes, lots of options

.338 edge
300 rum
338 rum
7 rum
300 wm
6.5x284
6.8 variates
280AI

These are probably some of the more popular long range rounds on remington 700 actions, in what i refer to the mid-bore calibers  ( i am sure that i missed several that others like).  From here you can get into all sorts of wildcats.  There are boat loads of wildcats in the larger bore calibers.

BiggerHammer and yorketransport and highcountry are all good resources on what some of the more obscure wildcats look like

[Boss .300 winmag]

Are you talking a long range rifle or a mountain rifle? Because that LR is not what I would call a mountain rifle at 9 pounds bare.
 

 

Yep my Boss .300 winmag has become a safe queen to a .243, and .308 that are much lighter and do a great job on anything south of the Canadian boreder.

[Biggerhammer]

Well, I have considerable experience with the Remington 700, and I have done some reading into a new variation that they have come up with called the LR. Seems to be an update of the Sendero. So when it comes to the rifle, I've already got that set in solid, I'm just hunting for an optimum caliber for hunting at 400-600 yards or more, and target shooting at 1000+.

.300 Win Mag. Good job on the loyalties to Remington!

[high country]

I absolutely love my 300 rum, if someone tells you they kick as hard you say, they are a wimp or a glass shoulder, 12 gauge with decent ammo hits harder. Mine is just the remington 700 SPSS, its lite weight and very maneuverable with a 26" barrel, a buddy has a new sendero in a 7mm rem mag, and its too heavy for my liking and i dont even backpack in the deep mountains. 300 rum can be a bit overkill for some stuff, especially if hit wrong, but mine flat puts stuff in the dirt with 180 grain sirroccos. Only a few have made a few steps. I always wanna buy a new rifles but just cant see packing anything but it. Its killed a pile of bears and blacktails....

I built one that weighed 7 pounds all ready to hunt without a brake. It broke every scope that graced it. I learned that I don't need to have the hardest bucking rifle around to be a *censored*, I can kill just as much and just as far with a 142smk at 2900 as I could with a 180 scirocco at 3250......and enjoy it....add be confident that it won't break itself doing what it's supposed to do.

[fordpowerforever]

I absolutely love my 300 rum, if someone tells you they kick as hard you say, they are a wimp or a glass shoulder, 12 gauge with decent ammo hits harder. Mine is just the remington 700 SPSS, its lite weight and very maneuverable with a 26" barrel, a buddy has a new sendero in a 7mm rem mag, and its too heavy for my liking and i dont even backpack in the deep mountains. 300 rum can be a bit overkill for some stuff, especially if hit wrong, but mine flat puts stuff in the dirt with 180 grain sirroccos. Only a few have made a few steps. I always wanna buy a new rifles but just cant see packing anything but it. Its killed a pile of bears and blacktails....

I built one that weighed 7 pounds all ready to hunt without a brake. It broke every scope that graced it. I learned that I don't need to have the hardest bucking rifle around to be a *censored*, I can kill just as much and just as far with a 142smk at 2900 as I could with a 180 scirocco at 3250......and enjoy it....add be confident that it won't break itself doing what it's supposed to do.

havent broke any scopes but did have some scope mounts come apart...

[coachcw]

Something in the seven pound range dressed for a mountain rifle. Even the ultralight are 5 3/4 with out glass. .270 0r 6.5 x284.

[high country]

I absolutely love my 300 rum, if someone tells you they kick as hard you say, they are a wimp or a glass shoulder, 12 gauge with decent ammo hits harder. Mine is just the remington 700 SPSS, its lite weight and very maneuverable with a 26" barrel, a buddy has a new sendero in a 7mm rem mag, and its too heavy for my liking and i dont even backpack in the deep mountains. 300 rum can be a bit overkill for some stuff, especially if hit wrong, but mine flat puts stuff in the dirt with 180 grain sirroccos. Only a few have made a few steps. I always wanna buy a new rifles but just cant see packing anything but it. Its killed a pile of bears and blacktails....

I built one that weighed 7 pounds all ready to hunt without a brake. It broke every scope that graced it. I learned that I don't need to have the hardest bucking rifle around to be a *censored*, I can kill just as much and just as far with a 142smk at 2900 as I could with a 180 scirocco at 3250......and enjoy it....add be confident that it won't break itself doing what it's supposed to do.

havent broke any scopes but did have some scope mounts come apart...

Btdt too. I missed a ripper bear on the first year of the spring hunt on the east side when my Swarovski rattled to death. Losing confidence in a rifle is detrimental no matter why. A less vicious recoiling rig with repeatable accuracy will win in the end when working with lighter rigs......imo.

[Jingles]

Why is it everyone avoids the reliable and time proven 30-06??? Folks claim that the 270 is a faster flatter shooting caliber however when you figure in that with the 06 you can load out to a 220 grain bullet verses with the 270 to can get up to a 150 grain bullet. With the 06 shooting a 185 SBT with recommended max loads (Sierra) 56 grains IMR4350 you are pushing it at 2800 FPS @ muzzle your Maximum Point Blank Range is 345 yards (MPBR = 5" above or below line of sight), verses the 270 with the 150 grain SBT pushed with max recommended load of 55.7 grains IMR 4350 @2900 FPS  @muzzle your MPBR is 350 yards, a mere 5 yards more than the 180 grain bullet in 30 cal 345 yards.

Now lets look at energy your 270 has 1822 FT-Lb at 300 yards where the 06 has 2077 @300 yards.

Sorry but the 06 is going to have less recoil than your Ultra mag you will shoot more because of less recoil thereby becoming more proficient at shooting meaning the better you are the less you'll need all that extra cannon because you couldn't hit the broad side of barn with your magnum becuase you were recoil shy.

I use the 180 grain as an example because that is what I use in my 06 and feel it is big and strong enough for anything that walks on the Northern Hemisphere with proper shot placement plus with the MPBR I don't need that expensive range finder that is just added weight in the pack or hanging on my neck. Only difference is I load it with 58 grains of IMR 4350 which I swag is pushing the 180 at 2900 FPS giving me a MPBR of 355 yards and 2240 ft lbs of energy at 300 yards

[high country]

Here's a bull elk shoulder at 900 ft/lbs with a 142gr 6.5 pill......energy is over rated.

[high country]

On side on the left.....off side on the right. Never took a step. 742 yds @ 2900 for with a 142.

[b23]

If I could ONLY have one rifle to do everything with and I wanted to keep it in the 10-12lb range, it would be a 6.5 caliber something or other.

[Jingles]

I expect to get hammered by quite a few on this but if I had to shoot 700+yards to get the game I was "Hunting" I think I'd learn a little bit more about hunting.

[whacker1]

I expect to get hammered by quite a few on this but if I had to shoot 700+yards to get the game I was "Hunting" I think I'd learn a little bit more about hunting.

Lots of different places to hunt.  Lots of different scenarios.  Ideally we all want to shorten the range.....but sometimes, you have to decide whether to take the shot given.  I like to be confident in a wider range of shots, and having the weapon in hand for the situation and the practice to support that range is part of the decision making.

Nothing wrong with the desire to get closer, but that is not always possible.

[high country]

If your landowner says you can shoot from here to there......you play by their rules. I don't mind. I've killed them at 20 feet and everywhere in between.  Be prepared for the situation.

[carpsniperg2]

I expect to get hammered by quite a few on this but if I had to shoot 700+yards to get the game I was "Hunting" I think I'd learn a little bit more about hunting.

Lots of different places to hunt.  Lots of different scenarios.  Ideally we all want to shorten the range.....but sometimes, you have to decide whether to take the shot given.  I like to be confident in a wider range of shots, and having the weapon in hand for the situation and the practice to support that range is part of the decision making.

Nothing wrong with the desire to get closer, but that is not always possible.

Spot on with these thoughts. Getting closer is not always about being a better hunting or not knowing something. Sometimes things prohibit from getting closer. If you are well practiced and know your limits and your equipment's limits then there is not reason to not take longer range shots.

[Romulus1297]

Melvin's ULA Model 24 is really easy to carry all day. 

[RadSav]

I am with others that the RUM is not a mountain rifle.  But it sounds as though that was a clarification mistake by the OP so I won't bother with my thoughts on mountain rifles.

As far as a gun producing RUM performance without all the umph?  There are plenty of options.  The RUM really comes into it's own when you start talking OVER 1,000 yards.  Maybe you are the < 2% that can consistently shoot the heart/lung of a deer with 90+% success out to 1,500 .  But, if you are like most good shooters that is not really in the cards nor is the RBros or similar rifle required to produce such success beyond 1,000 yards.  Inside 1,000 yards and to a great degree inside 700 yards the RUM doesn't offer much over the wonderful 300WM or Roy's 300.  You will still need to read wind like a master, will need to pay close attention to surfaces you are shooting from, will still need to have a dang fine rangefinder, and you will still need to choose bullets carefully once you venture past that 500 yard mark.  The RUM doesn't change any of that! 

The 300 WM has fallen victim to the same boring old offering as has afflicted the 308 and 30-06 over the years.  Often time resulting in a loss of respect as compared to the exciting 404 Jeffery based cartridges.  But, make no mistake, it has lost none of it's effectiveness over the years.  And with the advances in modern bullet construction one could even say it has only gotten better with time!  A true American classic and possibly the best all rounder ever made.

Hunting is not much a contest of manhood.  It's more about bringing home the bacon.  And for the good shooter that wants to reach out to ranges around 700 yards with 1,000 yards as a push it is just as effective and a whole lot cheaper to get it done with a WinMag.  And in the same weight rifle your shoulder will appreciate it after a long day on the range.  If your travels take you to places well beyond the end of the road you may appreciate a lighter weight 300 WM that could challenge the definition of a mountain rifle too!

[high country]

If you have 80 hours of light in the entire season. .....you better use em'. Pick the versatile tool that let's you work your area.

[walleye1]

I'm a 7mm fan for short and long range there B.C.is as good as it gets but there are a lot of great long range cal. Out there these days.I believe the key to shooting long range (500+) is your rangefinder and scope. your scope will compensate for any bullet drop.

[rbros]

When helping guys in the shop determine caliber, we typically will print out some ballistic charts out to 1k to show performance of the different calibers.  Realistically, a 7mm with a 180 Berger will have the same drift and drop as a 300RUM running a 210 out to 1K.  The 300 will have more energy, but not by much.  For most, the 7RM or 300WM is all they will really every need.  Once you get past 1k for critters, the 338's shine with the extra energy they product.  BUT, for most people, shots will be inside of 500yds and a "shootable" rifle is what is more important.  Honestly, for most, a 6.5-284 or 6.5-06AI would be all they really need to make clean ethical shots on everything we have to offer. 

This isn't to say the 300RUM is a bad cartridge.  It is a great cartridge and is very accurate when build correctly.  For some, even with a brake, its to much and they can never shoot them well.  My suggestion would be either the 7RM or 300WM and run the heavier bullets in them.  Put a good optic on the rifle and shoot lots of critters.