OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW

[jasnt]

Message sent

[Turner89]

okay so maybe im not being clear.  the point im trying to make is that baiting DOES, at least around here, lure a lot of does off of public land.  And when the does move off, the bucks follow, at least during the rut.  But I'm not saying that baiting should be banned because of that, I'm saying that regardless of the law this will continue to happen as does go after livestock feed, and that allowing public land hunters to bait is the best way they can level the playing field when theyre hunting near private land that is heavily baited.  for the record i am NOT against baiting, I have used it to some degree, but dont rely on it as my sole means of hunting, and im not some guy who is bitter over a lack of success as I fill my buck tag every year, even since this 4x minimum rule has gone in i always fill my tag.  im just stating that banning baiting hurts public land hunters who hunt land adjacent to baited private land, and helps the guys who own 500 acres bordering public land, and leave feed out for their livestock.  banning baiting favors those who already have all the advantages.  i think maybe we want the same thing but just look at it from different perspectives.  sorry if i was a bit ugly on the last post.

this post might be hard to understand as "does" (pronounced doze) and "does" (pronounced duzz) are spelled the same, it may cause some confusion.

Great point Bango shank I haven't read the whole thread, but this is a common sense argument.

[Bango skank]

you dont owe me nothin.  im the one who got ugly

[longrangehunter338]

If iread the post right, the buck was shot moving from public to private land. Placing bait on public land did not have any effect for the most part. What will it mean for hunters especially kids are learning to hunt if all they are taught is to go to a feed store and fill the back of their truck. A hunter will be hard pressed to place enough bales of hay, piles of corn or any bait that will suddenly rival that of a farm. It was posted before, baiting is a lot of work. It takes scouting, locating the deer, finding a place for your stand or blind near the game trails that the animal already travels. If you are already locating the game animals and learning their habits, what is so important about baiting?

[idahohuntr]

I don't know a single person who's exclusive method of hunting is baiting...so I don't have much concern kids will only have knowledge of baiting methods for hunting.  Baiting has been legal forever in Washington and we do not have generations of kids that only bait.  I think you will find most of the folks who bait are pretty serious hunters that are very capable of harvesting game with or without bait; however, we enjoy using bait as part of a setup in specific situations.  I run baits and I would guess I spent less than 1% of my time hunting over a bait this year...99% of my hunting did not involve any kind of bait.

So why bait? Baiting allows you to attract animals to a specific point and get more and better pictures of the animals in the area, it can be used to help with the position of your blind/stand and to help hold an animal for a better shot for longer.  In my experience, that last part is very helpful for youth, senior, and disabled hunters.   

[mfswallace]

I don't know a single person who's exclusive method of hunting is baiting...so I don't have much concern kids will only have knowledge of baiting methods for hunting.  Baiting has been legal forever in Washington and we do not have generations of kids that only bait.  I think you will find most of the folks who bait are pretty serious hunters that are very capable of harvesting game with or without bait; however, we enjoy using bait as part of a setup in specific situations.  I run baits and I would guess I spent less than 1% of my time hunting over a bait this year...99% of my hunting did not involve any kind of bait.

So why bait? Baiting allows you to attract animals to a specific point and get more and better pictures of the animals in the area, it can be used to help with the position of your blind/stand and to help hold an animal for a better shot for longer.  In my experience, that last part is very helpful for youth, senior, and disabled hunters.

It seems no matter how many times it is explained by knowledgeable individuals those who don't agree push back with the same, it's not sporting/ethical/necessary....
  To that I say please try it or go with someone who does it the right way and experience the highs and lows that it creates just like hunting. It should start in the spring just like scouting and continue to the start or end of hunting season dependent upon your preference. U will see it doesn't take a truck load if you do your scouting homework to get good pictures of alot of Animals in the area that you can then identify easier when hunting. 

Because I set up a trail cam and used bait to get the animals to stop and say cheese in the area I hunt with my dad I was able to identify a legal buck that my dad, who's eyes aren't that great, could feel comfortable shooting knowing I knew the specific animal

[jasnt]

What about the guy that owns just a little chunk of land and surrounded by huge farms and large timbered private land.
a food plot/creating cover/ providing water / minrels/salt is not enough when your surrounded by un huntable alfalfa fields and no access timber plots.

[billythekidrock]

What about the guy that owns just a little chunk of land and surrounded by huge farms and large timbered private land.
a food plot/creating cover/ providing water / minrels/salt is not enough when your surrounded by un huntable alfalfa fields and no access timber plots.

See, your too smart for your own good. They should just pay the high access fee for the timber land or trespass on the private farmland.

Actually this is a point that I have been wanting to make.
These small parcels of huntable land are often surrounded by private land or areas that may not always be safe to shoot, BUT with proper positioning of a bait pile and stand, a shot can be taken in a safe direction. This is something that everyone should encourage in the name of safety.

[jasnt]

What about the guy that owns just a little chunk of land and surrounded by huge farms and large timbered private land.
a food plot/creating cover/ providing water / minrels/salt is not enough when your surrounded by un huntable alfalfa fields and no access timber plots.

See, your too smart for your own good. They should just pay the high access fee for the timber land or trespass on the private farmland.

Actually this is a point that I have been wanting to make.
These small parcels of huntable land are often surrounded by private land or areas that may not always be safe to shoot, BUT with proper positioning of a bait pile and stand, a shot can be taken in a safe direction. This is something that everyone should encourage in the name of safety.

that is the exact situation in in. North is homes,east are homes and farms, south is a safe shot but no access,same with most west shots and NO access! I have provided the above and a bag of corn or 2 once a week. After 5years now of year round investment in getting some ok bucks and does with very healthy fawns. The best bucks still spend most their times safe in the alfalfa fields or timber and 95% of my deer traffic is after shooting light has ended. Then by late buck the deer seem to disperse. I hunt public land for late season when I can afford to.

that timbered land is private property, not a timber company. It is posted no hunting like everything else in the area

[Bango skank]

To those who are opposed to baiting: how does baiting adversely affect you?

Does something have to directly affect you to have an opinion on it? Other than my ethical objection to it, it hurts the public opinion of hunters as a whole, which like it or not adversely affects all of us.

ethical?  Please explain how baiting is unethical and while you're at it please explain just how detrimental baiting is to the public perception of hunters as a whole.

What adversely affects you and I is a loss of opportunity; you're advocating for a loss of that opportunity for many hunters who choose to bait for one reason or another. 

I guarantee you that eventually -as opportunity is chipped away- something will be on the chopping block that you cherish as your personal hunting tradition.   You'll be up in arms screaming on HW how your being adversely affected by a stupid rule and I'll gently remind everyone how you and others on HW advocated to have baiting removed; doing your part to help usher in more rules and less opportunity to hunt for fellow hunters and huntresses.


We must stop foolishly advocating for further losses to our hunting privileges and start helping secure more opportunity for future generations of hunters.

Is introducing something that plays on animals most basic survival needs considered fair chase? You are right I am advocating for the loss of this opportunity because it is an opportunity that should never have been had. Obviously explaining myself isn't going to change anyone's opinion on HW. Let us agree to disagree on the matter.

So is it time to outlaw duck calls? Or just the feeding call when they get close because they are coming in for their most basic survival needs. I unfairly called out banko a few posts back. I think we cleared that up. But I will say you are wrong, these animals are not just out there easy to be had because some food is in the ground. And please explain yourself, you would change my opinion if you had a shred of fact to back a thing you are saying.

And bango posted up a pic of a nice buck he shot. Happy to see it and happy he got it. Lets see just one good one you got in any legal form of hunting. Should be really easy for you provide that since you seem to be a master at knowing about the animals basic needs. Not going to hold my breath waiting for you to post it up........

if you read my post where i posted the pic, i thought i was pretty clear, i was hunting that buck on public land near private land, and the buck went to bait on the private land and got shot, not by me.  he was in my bait pile that morning though before daylight.  just used that buck to illustrate y point that the private land will continue to have bait out, if only in the form of livestock feed, and sometimes the only thing you can do when youre hunting next to private land is throw out a bait pile of your own to compete.  Didn't quite work out for me, but I figure putting out the competing bait pile was my best bet given the situation.

[Little Dave]

Keep public perception in mind, but don't let it control you.

If we wanted to, we could devastate the software industry showing screens are bad for children, video games desensitize individuals to violence, used as a vehicle to commit crimes, and access should be controlled and significantly regulated.  All we need to do is run a few convincing ads linking horrible incidents to our villainous subject matter and we win over the public.

The software industry is somewhat resilient to this because it is always promoting its positive attributes.  Even the gruesome video games are promoted as something that you should want to have in your collection.

It's how we should be.  We shouldn't even have this tedious discussion.  Instead of talking of banning this or that.  Loudly promote the positive benefits of the way you hunt, let your fellow hunters promote the positive benefits of the way they hunt.  We are more resilient this way.

The trail of division leads to more problems.  If you ban baits for deer and elk, trappers and fishermen will be next.  Don't do it.  Please reconsider.

[bearpaw]

   well said Dave! 

[Brad Harshman]

you support a restriction on a legal method of hunting, then good on you for recognizing yourself as an anti hunter
I'm not here to mince words.  To be clear. You are hurting hunting, now go away, this is a save-able issue and I am trying to wake up the sleeping masses.

That this issue has devolved, internally from a few self righteous, arrogant individuals who call themselves hunters is repulsive to me.

Do NOT tell me to go away on an open hunting forum where debate is not only allowed it is encouraged.

You do NOT know where I stand because you are so busy being a preachy _________ you are not willing to listen to people who actually support your effort. Instead you declare exactly how things will go like a giant dicktater instead of inviting people to join you and offering a means of doing that.
You will NOT speak for me even if I agree with your position.

I have already written in opposition of any further restrictions without all your huff an puff but thanks for making more enemies and further eroding the hunting world.  Have a great day

have a great day

I agree with these gentlemen.
I'm trying to figure this out because I'm not really a big game hunter. Im an avid waterfowl hunter. I CAN'T BAIT!!! But I'm willing to learn and research before I give my opinion on the topic at hand. That being said your original post does nothing but incite conflict. If you represent the baiting community then, based on pure reaction to your words, I'd oppose baiting. I don't think I'd like to meet or talk to you in the woods.  You fail to promote a healthly community for hunters. You immediately create enemies by telling everyone who doesn't agree to go away.  This reflects poorly on all of hunters.  More so then guys who use salt blocks or bales of hay to increase their odds.

I'm interested to find any research about the benefits or impacts of baiting for ungulates. I encourage everyone to search through the science community and share their findings; pros and cons.

What is the difference between baiting to get ungulates where you can see what's in an area and using decoys to get waterfowl to land in a specific area??

I hope you're joking, right?  My decoys are under my control at all times. They cannot be left out, they do not provide nourishment for the birds. If anything the birds become wary of them overtime rather than dependent. 
Why do ask? The issue is about baiting. Baiting was so successful for water fowl that they out lawed it.  Decoy use is legal for big game and it should continue to be.  I've always dreamed of hunting over a salt lick and some apples. I've been lead to believe its highly successful -here on HW.  But now I'm hearing that it isn't. Yet IRONICALLY those who do are so passionate about it I tend to think its very successful and they stand to lose a lot if it is outlawed.

[jasnt]

I think you should try it brad.  But dont use the salt block. Bear love to pack them off. Granular salt works great and is just over $5.

[idahohuntr]

you support a restriction on a legal method of hunting, then good on you for recognizing yourself as an anti hunter
I'm not here to mince words.  To be clear. You are hurting hunting, now go away, this is a save-able issue and I am trying to wake up the sleeping masses.

That this issue has devolved, internally from a few self righteous, arrogant individuals who call themselves hunters is repulsive to me.

Do NOT tell me to go away on an open hunting forum where debate is not only allowed it is encouraged.

You do NOT know where I stand because you are so busy being a preachy _________ you are not willing to listen to people who actually support your effort. Instead you declare exactly how things will go like a giant dicktater instead of inviting people to join you and offering a means of doing that.
You will NOT speak for me even if I agree with your position.

I have already written in opposition of any further restrictions without all your huff an puff but thanks for making more enemies and further eroding the hunting world.  Have a great day

have a great day

I agree with these gentlemen.
I'm trying to figure this out because I'm not really a big game hunter. Im an avid waterfowl hunter. I CAN'T BAIT!!! But I'm willing to learn and research before I give my opinion on the topic at hand. That being said your original post does nothing but incite conflict. If you represent the baiting community then, based on pure reaction to your words, I'd oppose baiting. I don't think I'd like to meet or talk to you in the woods.  You fail to promote a healthly community for hunters. You immediately create enemies by telling everyone who doesn't agree to go away.  This reflects poorly on all of hunters.  More so then guys who use salt blocks or bales of hay to increase their odds.

I'm interested to find any research about the benefits or impacts of baiting for ungulates. I encourage everyone to search through the science community and share their findings; pros and cons.

What is the difference between baiting to get ungulates where you can see what's in an area and using decoys to get waterfowl to land in a specific area??

I hope you're joking, right?  My decoys are under my control at all times. They cannot be left out, they do not provide nourishment for the birds. If anything the birds become wary of them overtime rather than dependent. 
Why do ask? The issue is about baiting. Baiting was so successful for water fowl that they out lawed it.  Decoy use is legal for big game and it should continue to be.  I've always dreamed of hunting over a salt lick and some apples. I've been lead to believe its highly successful -here on HW.  But now I'm hearing that it isn't. Yet IRONICALLY those who do are so passionate about it I tend to think its very successful and they stand to lose a lot if it is outlawed.

Its a lot like other methods of hunting...in specific situations and with a lot of hard work and some luck you can be successful.  I think what you are misconstruing is that folks are wanting to make it clear that it is not shooting fish in a barrel....its a method, if employed correctly, that can be successful...far from a guarantee,..but that is the perception we are wanting to clarify...these are not trained, pet deer.  They are still very wild, and very wary of the feed etc...if it was creating an overharvest problem like baiting waterfowl wdfw would have to ban it and I would fully support said ban...its not a harvest problem though and so I see no need to ban it.