594 is winning while 591 is losing

[csaaphill]

Your point seems to be that we should begin a violent revolt because you've had it up "to here".  Then what?

I am saying those people who fought and died in the American Revolution did not have anyone to represent them and were pressed into combat to get their point across.  You are much better off and we still have a constitution (though it is encroached upon) and that is where I think the focus should be - on fighting a legal battle.

you'd be right I do feel a rovolt is needed been needed and will continue to be needed.
Representation doesn't mean theres no tyranny a elelcted offical can step on rights as well as a unelected one.
and where? the constitution is prety my much just toilet paper now days so NO were not better off!
Knew that's what you meant but wanted to clarify it first.
and not exatly they could of put up with King George if they wanted to, but they chose not to.
You sound 25 and not used to not being free or a lot free'er than what we are now.
all this playing the political game has got us no where the statement freedome is only won at the end of a gun is good but is useless when not used which is what the 2nd amendment is for.
WHen a majoirty can alienate something that is supposed to be unalienable and all we do is play this blanking game lose then back off wait for the next infringement  an moan then do it again later on as if we still have peacefull means of adressing the GOv and or people and expect them to listen is nothing but a joke to me so ya Im ready we have no recource left and haven't had any for a very long time, but people keep hoping that something or someone will come along and bail us out of this mess 
is like pulling your own teeth.
an oh they had representation if you call whoever was in power at the time Representation they had it Much like we have whoever's in power and only if they care or want to listen
Persoanlly we haven't had true good Representation since i've been around it's all been whatever the status quoe and thier agenda has been.

[Jonathan_S]

Essentially what I've learned is that since I don't want to participate in a violent revolution at this point, I don't care enough. 

I'm 24 which means it doesn't matter what I think anyway 

[csaaphill]

well does like GOA will be filling lawsuits so ya.

[huntrights]

 
There are many bad laws that are passed and imposed on the people of this country.  If the People believe the laws are unconstitutional, or they don't like the laws, they must work to change the laws.  The judicial and legislative processes are how that is done.  That is why it is so important that we ALL VOTE, and VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.  The People need to be actively engaged in the political process so we ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas.  Because the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic, laws CANNOT violate the Constitution or Bill of Rights regardless of whether they were voted into place by a misled public (i.e. I-594) or by a wrongly biased legislature.

It is unfortunate, but it is very obvious on national, state, and local levels that it has been primarily the (D) elected officials/representatives that have attacked our Second Amendment rights and other rights (i.e. private property rights).  There are some good (D's) that support and defend our Second Amendment rights and hunting; we should support them if they are good representatives of the People.  The NRA rates candidates based on their votes, or a questionnaire if they don't have a voting record. so it is very obvious who supports our Second Amendment rights and who does not.  There are other organizations that also do this.  The ratings are non-partisan.  A clear message to people in this forum (all political parties - all freedom-loving Americans) is to VOTE only for candidates that have shown they support our Second Amendment rights and hunting - DO NOT vote party lines - DO NOT vote for candidates that have shown themselves to be "Political Hacks".

I-594, if allowed to be implemented, will be an extremely bad law as written.  It either needs to be thrown out or significantly changed via the judicial and legislative processes.

For those that would like to get a feel for why getting engaged in our political processes is so important, consider reading the following book:

"Confrontational Politics"
by Senator H. L. Richardson, Ret.
http://www.amazon.com/Confrontational-Politics-H-L-Richardson/dp/0982707452/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415378893&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=cfrontational+politics

[Fl0und3rz]

Excellent post as always, huntrights.  Glad to have you here.

[csaaphill]

There are many bad laws that are passed and imposed on the people of this country.  If the People believe the laws are unconstitutional, or they don't like the laws, they must work to change the laws.  The judicial and legislative processes are how that is done.  That is why it is so important that we ALL VOTE, and VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.  The People need to be actively engaged in the political process so we ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas.  Because the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic, laws CANNOT violate the Constitution or Bill of Rights regardless of whether they were voted into place by a misled public (i.e. I-594) or by a wrongly biased legislature.

It is unfortunate, but it is very obvious on national, state, and local levels that it has been primarily the (D) elected officials/representatives that have attacked our Second Amendment rights and other rights (i.e. private property rights).  There are some good (D's) that support and defend our Second Amendment rights and hunting; we should support them if they are good representatives of the People.  The NRA rates candidates based on their votes, or a questionnaire if they don't have a voting record. so it is very obvious who supports our Second Amendment rights and who does not.  There are other organizations that also do this.  The ratings are non-partisan.  A clear message to people in this forum (all political parties - all freedom-loving Americans) is to VOTE only for candidates that have shown they support our Second Amendment rights and hunting - DO NOT vote party lines - DO NOT vote for candidates that have shown themselves to be "Political Hacks".

I-594, if allowed to be implemented, will be an extremely bad law as written.  It either needs to be thrown out or significantly changed via the judicial and legislative processes.

For those that would like to get a feel for why getting engaged in our political processes is so important, consider reading the following book:

"Confrontational Politics"
by Senator H. L. Richardson, Ret.
http://www.amazon.com/Confrontational-Politics-H-L-Richardson/dp/0982707452/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415378893&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=cfrontational+politics

In an ideal world without an agenda this statement would mean something sorry but Our Republic died in 1865 since then it's been a mob rules Deomocrocy. The true problem is the supreme court they have ruled against the constitution many times. Terry stops for one, stop and frisk, in NY for another. they have upheld chekcpoints and anytime someone comes along to challenge it they either rule against that person or don't even listen so no all avenues for peacefull protest are dead all that's left is for us to realise that and either make the hard choice to do what we know we should of done many years ago, or accept it and get in step!
The right to keep and bear arms was giving to do just that bear arms against those that oppress and despots but does no good if we don't!
Sorry I respect you huntrights but no we  lost and all that's left now is like I said revolt or get inline. Both Parties have an agenda in mind so does the supreme court which they've ruled along those lines many many times

[Mrninninnin]

News release: 11/07/14. Washington State.

TO: All media organizations and groups.
FROM: Gavin Seim, lead organizer of the “I WILL NOT Comply Rally”.

Initiative 594 just passed in Washington State, bringing on residents mandatory gun background checks and making it a felony to privately purchase or even hand a gun to a friend without government permission. We the people of Washington State will not comply with this lawless legislation. The highest law is that of liberty and our Constitution. Our rights will be upheld.

On Dec 13th 2014, just after the law is legally in effect, we stand and disobey the illegal restrictions of i594. We must not wait for our rights to be decided but act swiftly to affirm them. In under 72 hours over 5000 have RSVP’d to this stand on Capital grounds in Olympia and assert their God given rights.

Learn more about this peaceful civil rebellion here: http://callmegav.com/ral/

View the event page here: https://www.facebook.com/events/788109621237033


Joining in the event will be speakers, patriots and families from across the State to remind our legislators that lawless legislation will not be obeyed and to teach others about their rights.
 Will you bow down and lick the boots of tyrants, or will you stand for the liberty of your children? We are not asking permission, we are not standing silent. Our birthright is not theirs to take. We stand peaceful, principled, firm and resolute for the liberty so many have perished for. We stand to uphold law and we will not comply with lawlessness from government.

We Stand! Stand with us.

In Liberty – Gavin Seim.
 gavinforliberty@gmail.com

[huntrights]

There are many bad laws that are passed and imposed on the people of this country.  If the People believe the laws are unconstitutional, or they don't like the laws, they must work to change the laws.  The judicial and legislative processes are how that is done.  That is why it is so important that we ALL VOTE, and VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.  The People need to be actively engaged in the political process so we ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas.  Because the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic, laws CANNOT violate the Constitution or Bill of Rights regardless of whether they were voted into place by a misled public (i.e. I-594) or by a wrongly biased legislature.

It is unfortunate, but it is very obvious on national, state, and local levels that it has been primarily the (D) elected officials/representatives that have attacked our Second Amendment rights and other rights (i.e. private property rights).  There are some good (D's) that support and defend our Second Amendment rights and hunting; we should support them if they are good representatives of the People.  The NRA rates candidates based on their votes, or a questionnaire if they don't have a voting record. so it is very obvious who supports our Second Amendment rights and who does not.  There are other organizations that also do this.  The ratings are non-partisan.  A clear message to people in this forum (all political parties - all freedom-loving Americans) is to VOTE only for candidates that have shown they support our Second Amendment rights and hunting - DO NOT vote party lines - DO NOT vote for candidates that have shown themselves to be "Political Hacks".

I-594, if allowed to be implemented, will be an extremely bad law as written.  It either needs to be thrown out or significantly changed via the judicial and legislative processes.

For those that would like to get a feel for why getting engaged in our political processes is so important, consider reading the following book:

"Confrontational Politics"
by Senator H. L. Richardson, Ret.
http://www.amazon.com/Confrontational-Politics-H-L-Richardson/dp/0982707452/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415378893&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=cfrontational+politics

In an ideal world without an agenda this statement would mean something sorry but Our Republic died in 1865 since then it's been a mob rules Deomocrocy. The true problem is the supreme court they have ruled against the constitution many times. Terry stops for one, stop and frisk, in NY for another. they have upheld chekcpoints and anytime someone comes along to challenge it they either rule against that person or don't even listen so no all avenues for peacefull protest are dead all that's left is for us to realise that and either make the hard choice to do what we know we should of done many years ago, or accept it and get in step!
The right to keep and bear arms was giving to do just that bear arms against those that oppress and despots but does no good if we don't!
Sorry I respect you huntrights but no we  lost and all that's left now is like I said revolt or get inline. Both Parties have an agenda in mind so does the supreme court which they've ruled along those lines many many times

Who submits nominations to for Supreme Court positions?  Answer: The President
Who VOTES for the President?  Answer: The People
Who gives final confirmation/approval of the nomination?  Answer: The U.S. Senate
Who VOTES for the Senators?  Answer: The People

The point is - We must ALL be engaged in the political process and work continuously to ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas. We must VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.

[csaaphill]

There are many bad laws that are passed and imposed on the people of this country.  If the People believe the laws are unconstitutional, or they don't like the laws, they must work to change the laws.  The judicial and legislative processes are how that is done.  That is why it is so important that we ALL VOTE, and VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.  The People need to be actively engaged in the political process so we ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas.  Because the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic, laws CANNOT violate the Constitution or Bill of Rights regardless of whether they were voted into place by a misled public (i.e. I-594) or by a wrongly biased legislature.

It is unfortunate, but it is very obvious on national, state, and local levels that it has been primarily the (D) elected officials/representatives that have attacked our Second Amendment rights and other rights (i.e. private property rights).  There are some good (D's) that support and defend our Second Amendment rights and hunting; we should support them if they are good representatives of the People.  The NRA rates candidates based on their votes, or a questionnaire if they don't have a voting record. so it is very obvious who supports our Second Amendment rights and who does not.  There are other organizations that also do this.  The ratings are non-partisan.  A clear message to people in this forum (all political parties - all freedom-loving Americans) is to VOTE only for candidates that have shown they support our Second Amendment rights and hunting - DO NOT vote party lines - DO NOT vote for candidates that have shown themselves to be "Political Hacks".

I-594, if allowed to be implemented, will be an extremely bad law as written.  It either needs to be thrown out or significantly changed via the judicial and legislative processes.

For those that would like to get a feel for why getting engaged in our political processes is so important, consider reading the following book:

"Confrontational Politics"
by Senator H. L. Richardson, Ret.
http://www.amazon.com/Confrontational-Politics-H-L-Richardson/dp/0982707452/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415378893&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=cfrontational+politics

In an ideal world without an agenda this statement would mean something sorry but Our Republic died in 1865 since then it's been a mob rules Deomocrocy. The true problem is the supreme court they have ruled against the constitution many times. Terry stops for one, stop and frisk, in NY for another. they have upheld chekcpoints and anytime someone comes along to challenge it they either rule against that person or don't even listen so no all avenues for peacefull protest are dead all that's left is for us to realise that and either make the hard choice to do what we know we should of done many years ago, or accept it and get in step!
The right to keep and bear arms was giving to do just that bear arms against those that oppress and despots but does no good if we don't!
Sorry I respect you huntrights but no we  lost and all that's left now is like I said revolt or get inline. Both Parties have an agenda in mind so does the supreme court which they've ruled along those lines many many times

Who submits nominations to for Supreme Court positions?  Answer: The President
Who VOTES for the President?  Answer: The People
Who gives final confirmation/approval of the nomination?  Answer: The U.S. Senate
Who VOTES for the Senators?  Answer: The People

The point is - We must ALL be engaged in the political process and work continuously to ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas. We must VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.

[csaaphill]

There are many bad laws that are passed and imposed on the people of this country.  If the People believe the laws are unconstitutional, or they don't like the laws, they must work to change the laws.  The judicial and legislative processes are how that is done.  That is why it is so important that we ALL VOTE, and VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.  The People need to be actively engaged in the political process so we ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas.  Because the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic, laws CANNOT violate the Constitution or Bill of Rights regardless of whether they were voted into place by a misled public (i.e. I-594) or by a wrongly biased legislature.

It is unfortunate, but it is very obvious on national, state, and local levels that it has been primarily the (D) elected officials/representatives that have attacked our Second Amendment rights and other rights (i.e. private property rights).  There are some good (D's) that support and defend our Second Amendment rights and hunting; we should support them if they are good representatives of the People.  The NRA rates candidates based on their votes, or a questionnaire if they don't have a voting record. so it is very obvious who supports our Second Amendment rights and who does not.  There are other organizations that also do this.  The ratings are non-partisan.  A clear message to people in this forum (all political parties - all freedom-loving Americans) is to VOTE only for candidates that have shown they support our Second Amendment rights and hunting - DO NOT vote party lines - DO NOT vote for candidates that have shown themselves to be "Political Hacks".

I-594, if allowed to be implemented, will be an extremely bad law as written.  It either needs to be thrown out or significantly changed via the judicial and legislative processes.

For those that would like to get a feel for why getting engaged in our political processes is so important, consider reading the following book:

"Confrontational Politics"
by Senator H. L. Richardson, Ret.
http://www.amazon.com/Confrontational-Politics-H-L-Richardson/dp/0982707452/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415378893&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=cfrontational+politics

In an ideal world without an agenda this statement would mean something sorry but Our Republic died in 1865 since then it's been a mob rules Deomocrocy. The true problem is the supreme court they have ruled against the constitution many times. Terry stops for one, stop and frisk, in NY for another. they have upheld chekcpoints and anytime someone comes along to challenge it they either rule against that person or don't even listen so no all avenues for peacefull protest are dead all that's left is for us to realise that and either make the hard choice to do what we know we should of done many years ago, or accept it and get in step!
The right to keep and bear arms was giving to do just that bear arms against those that oppress and despots but does no good if we don't!
Sorry I respect you huntrights but no we  lost and all that's left now is like I said revolt or get inline. Both Parties have an agenda in mind so does the supreme court which they've ruled along those lines many many times

Who submits nominations to for Supreme Court positions?  Answer: The President
Who VOTES for the President?  Answer: The People
Who gives final confirmation/approval of the nomination?  Answer: The U.S. Senate
Who VOTES for the Senators?  Answer: The People

The point is - We must ALL be engaged in the political process and work continuously to ensure we have representation that is working for us and our rights and freedoms, not for a few anti-gun billionaires, or for their own ideological agendas. We must VOTE only for people that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution.

1.Majority belief in something does not necessarily mean that it’s true.
 2.Majorities are capable of being just as tyrannical as kings.
 3.Historically, democracies have elected tyrannical leaders.

The second avenue toward totalitarian tyranny is “free elections.” It can happen that a totalitarian party with great popularity gains such momentum and so many votes that it becomes legally and democratically a country’s master. This happened in Germany in 1932 when no less than 60 per cent of the electorate voted for totalitarian despotism: for every two National Socialists there was one international socialist in the form of a Marxist Communist, and another one in the form of a somewhat less Marxist Social Democrat. Under these circum stances liberal democracy was doomed, since it had no longer a majority in the Reichstag. This development could have been halted only by a military dictatorship (as envisaged by General von Schleicher who was later murdered by the Nazis) or by a restoration of the Hohenzollerns (as planned by Bruning). Yet, within the democratic and constitutional framework, the National Socialists were bound to win.

[csaaphill]

"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)
"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants" (Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939)
 
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" (Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836)
 

[huntrights]

 
I-594 will create a bad law.  The way to fix the I-594 issue is through our judicial and legislative processes.

Our country is a Constitutional Republic; our representatives take an Oath of Office to support and defend our Constitution, and they must govern to the existing Constitution and Bill of Rights.  If they do not, then they must be removed from their position via our VOTE, impeachment, and whatever other legal means we have of removing bad players from the elected positions they may hold.   It is the system we have to work with and it is the best in the world. 

This is why it is so important for people to stop voting party lines.  If the candidates are not supporting and defending our Constitutional rights, then the People must stop voting for them.  Voting should not be viewed like a football game; the reds (Republicans) against the blues (Democrats) and/or purples (Independents).  Our rights and freedoms are on the line every time we vote.  Voters need to stop voting for people that continue to attack our rights and freedoms in support of some liberal/progressive/socialist agendas.  Voters must vote only for people that will support and defend our Constitution and ALL of our rights and freedoms.   

Apathy kills freedom; ALL freedom-loving Americans must get more engaged in the political process to ensure we keep the rights and freedoms we fought so hard to obtain.

[csaaphill]

 
I-594 will create a bad law.  The way to fix the I-594 issue is through our judicial and legislative processes.

Our country is a Constitutional Republic; our representatives take an Oath of Office to support and defend our Constitution, and they must govern to the existing Constitution and Bill of Rights.  If they do not, then they must be removed from their position via our VOTE, impeachment, and whatever other legal means we have of removing bad players from the elected positions they may hold.   It is the system we have to work with and it is the best in the world. 

This is why it is so important for people to stop voting party lines.  If the candidates are not supporting and defending our Constitutional rights, then the People must stop voting for them.  Voting should not be viewed like a football game; the reds (Republicans) against the blues (Democrats) and/or purples (Independents).  Our rights and freedoms are on the line every time we vote.  Voters need to stop voting for people that continue to attack our rights and freedoms in support of some liberal/progressive/socialist agendas.  Voters must vote only for people that will support and defend our Constitution and ALL of our rights and freedoms.   

Apathy kills freedom; ALL freedom-loving Americans must get more engaged in the political process to ensure we keep the rights and freedoms we fought so hard to obtain.

and when that doesn't work  sorry had too

[hub]

The problem with judicial and legislative process is that the state legislature is not allowed to stop a bad citizen sponsored initiative. All the legislature or governor can do is grab there ballot and vote like the rest of us. That's how this state works. The liberal left is totally aware of our liberal and out dated state constitution and how it reads. Anyone can sponsor an initiative to the people. If you can get enough signatures from registered voters who support your proposal it gets put on the ballot by the state. Your elected officials have no say at all regarding whether the initiative is unconstitutional, violates state law or violates the US constitutional. All the liberal left has to do is get there initiative on the ballot and let Bill Gates and Bloomberg fund the TV adds. The rest is history. They win and we lose. Washington state is just another county of New York City at the moment. Hopefully our elected officials are tired of being by passed and change the LAWS. This state is in melt down right now. All because of initatives that vilolate the 2nd emendment or violate federal law or violate state law with no way to stop any of it.

[Fl0und3rz]

The problem with judicial and legislative process is that the state legislature is not allowed to stop a bad citizen sponsored initiative. All the legislature or governor can do is grab there ballot and vote like the rest of us. That's how this state works.

This is absolutely incorrect.  Our elected representatives failed us.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,164549.msg2170394.html#msg2170394