"I will not comply" on KIRO

[baker5150]

http://mynorthwest.com/813/2643190/They-Will-Not-Comply

Listening, it's pretty obvious how Dave Ross feels. 

I think Gavin has some really good points and is a good interview, but Dave Ross just doesn't get it.  If people would just open their minds they would see what Gavin is trying to say, That it's not just about 594 but all of our liberties that can, have, and could be taken from us.

Give em inch and they'll take mile

[Kittman]

His female morning sidekick on the radio was mentioning, or more like complaining about why are "they" making a huge Rukus out of the whole thing.  They just don't get it.  People can't just go on voting constitutional rights away...

[Angry Perch]

I listened to a bit of it on the way into work this morning, but not all. And we know what bits are going to end up getting radio play. Obviously Dave Ross is on the other side of this issue, as are the vast majority of his listeners, I presume. Gavin certainly didn't help the cause. First, I think the argument that "criminals will get guns no matter what" needs to go away. Yes, it's true, but it is just not an effective argument. And not-so-veiled threats to take up arms against anyone who tries to enforce this law will send anyone who's on the fence running for cover. Just my 

[baker5150]

I listened to a bit of it on the way into work this morning, but not all. And we know what bits are going to end up getting radio play. Obviously Dave Ross is on the other side of this issue, as are the vast majority of his listeners, I presume. Gavin certainly didn't help the cause. First, I think the argument that "criminals will get guns no matter what" needs to go away. Yes, it's true, but it is just not an effective argument. And not-so-veiled threats to take up arms against anyone who tries to enforce this law will send anyone who's on the fence running for cover. Just my 

I somewhat disagree.  It's a valid point when pointing out that this law isn't going to change the amount of guns sold to felons.  Felons are already breaking one law, why not one more.  What I see Gavin trying to point out is that, regardless of the effectiveness of this law, it's a violation of our second amendment right.  And also, it's a step in the direction of other constitutional rights being limited or all out taken away. 

He said it multiple times, it's about liberty, not just gun rights.  It's about what we let our government take from us.  It's about what we let our fellow Americans take from us.  "The collective majority does not have the right to vote away the rights of another" especially when those are considered god given rights.  If people would just open their eyes they would see this isn't just about gun rights, it's about all our rights.

[huntrights]

...  If people would just open their eyes they would see this isn't just about gun rights, it's about all our rights.

"Gun rights activists plan I-594 protest at Capitol"
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/nov/13/gun-rights-activists-plan-i-594-protest-at-capitol/

[billythekidrock]

I am not against a rally or protest, but this one is already making us look bad.

[timberfaller]

I am not against a rally or protest, but this one is already making us look bad.

HOW???

I am old enough to know that anything the "press" said is biased at best.

Standing up for ones Rights even if others "don't get it" is a good thing.

[luvmystang67]

That spokesman article is ridiculous...

"they don't see the law that way" is absurd.  Basically, the cops need a legal opinion from a real lawyer.  I'm happy to hear that it basically sounds so ridiculous to them that they don't feel the need to arrest anyone, but if they actually understood the law they should be   

[h20hunter]

I am not against a rally or protest, but this one is already making us look bad.

HOW???

I am old enough to know that anything the "press" said is biased at best.

Standing up for ones Rights even if others "don't get it" is a good thing.

I believe that is in reference to a call for a showing of arms (public open carry rally) referred to in another thread.

[timberfaller]

When you give a inch, THEY expect a mile these days. 

What needs to happen and make things somewhat normal again is, ALL school districts should be required to have a Shooting Team.   It was the norm before, could be again.  It takes backbone and love of Independence and Freedom.  But then, "History" hasn't been taught for over a generation now.

[Kittman]

If I understand the sentiment here of what I have been reading it goes something like this:  The Sheeple are getting worried over what the dumb voting Sheeple think...that have already voted for something dumb...

[HighlandLofts]

When you give a inch, THEY expect a mile these days. 

What needs to happen and make things somewhat normal again is, ALL school districts should be required to have a Shooting Team.   It was the norm before, could be again.  It takes backbone and love of Independence and Freedom.  But then, "History" hasn't been taught for over a generation now.

That sure as hell won't happen in these times where they have the sheeple brain washed that every gun out there is bad news. Recently a young kid was expelled from school for making a gun shape out of a pop-tart. Several kids were expelled for wearing NRSA shirts to school. The list goes on & on.

It's time to stand up guys and do something, are any of you going to the Rally on the 13th? Or will you be staying home and watch a ball game?

The last I knew I was a free American Citizen, but they are making short work of that. If you look who's behind all of this, look at the Democrat Party. All feel good legislation to take your gun rights away. Remember Sheeple, It's for the Children.

[yorketransport]

I heard that interview while I was working yesterday. The whole thing just made me cringe. The pro gun movement needs to invest some time and money into a decent PR rep if they're going to help public image. Gavin did far more damage in that 3 minutes than anyone could have expected from either side of the debate. I mean honestly, stating that you'll defend your self with a firearm from any criminal after explaining how the government officials are criminals? These are not the people I want representing me or my interests!

I am not against a rally or protest, but this one is already making us look bad.

Getting a bunch of angry gun owners together in an act of protest and encouraging them to bring their guns is just a recipe for disaster and confrontation. The reason any social movement is successful is because it plays to peoples' emotions. The Anti gun movement is successful because they play to everyone's sense of humanity. The Pro gun movement feeds off of the fear and anger of the pro gun supporters. Just look at the tactics used by the NRA. Fear and anger will never help this cause.

I wish everyone would just understand the difference between enemies and opponents. There are enemies in wars and opponents in ideological disagreements. The gun debate is just that, a debate, not a war. The anti gun groups are not enemies to be threatened or defeated. They are simply opponents to be converted and persuaded.

Andrew

[csaaphill]

go get em peacefull protest 
if it wins

[Angry Perch]

Good grief!  If the majority of people in a room are scared of snakes, I'm pretty sure calling them names and putting pythons around their necks isn't going to help sway them. Most of the people I associate with- coworkers, in-laws, friends -  were or would have been (until I spoke sensibly to them about it) supporters of 594. There are millions of people that have had zero exposure to guns in their lives, and to them, guns, especially black ones, are scary. Why wouldn't they be? Heck, when I go to the range and every guy there is wearing tactical gear and shooting an AR, it freaks me out. I'm not scared in any way, but it's just a different culture than the gun culture I grew up with. I absolutely support it, but it's very different. I wish I had the answer to all of our problems, but it's clear that the current strategy is not working.

[longrangekiller]

you have to be well trained so the gun dont "backfire" ? hum

[Sitka_Blacktail]

They can't take guns away unless they know where they are. Without blanket registration, they can never know where they all are.

[billythekidrock]

Please remember this is a family site. Keep it clean and civil.

[huntrights]

 

Protests are fine if they are done in ways that peacefully and lawfully make the desired statements; sometimes it is good to make these statements in a public venue.

Obey ALL laws, even the one(s) you are protesting against.
Be respectful and don't give the anti-gun groups cannon-fodder to justify their anti-gun agendas. 

The goals of gun-owners and hunters should be outreach and education with facts.  Many people that are afraid of guns (anti-gun) and/or may also be anti-hunting may have those opinions because of their lack of exposure and knowledge on the subjects.  Some may base their opinions on a single personal experience or they have succumb to lies and propaganda. 

Emotions run high when madmen carry out their malevolent deeds on innocent people using a gun.  We don't hear outrage against cars when a car is used to plow through a group of innocent people on a sidewalk, or against kitchen knives, hammers, baseball bats, or other such items when they are used for evil acts of violence.  It is easy for anti-gunners to blame the tool (gun) versus focusing on the real issues like mental illness, drug abuse, gangs, cultural decay, loss of family values, economic decay, etc.  Anti-gun zealots will seize all opportunities to use any gun-related event to further their anti-gun agendas; all gun-owners need to be aware of this.  That said, all gun-owners must be mindful of the image they project in the public eye; public perception is very powerful.

Laws that are unconstitutional and/or unjust need to be changed or repealed through the judicial and/or legislative processes.  Be patient and get involved.  Join and contribute to the organizations that are fighting these battles for us.

All people need to become more engaged in our political processes.  Those that did not VOTE have no right to complain about the representation or laws that result from our elections.

 

[luvmystang67]

Protests are fine if they are done in ways that peacefully and lawfully make the desired statements; sometimes it is good to make these statements in a public venue.

Obey ALL laws, even the one(s) you are protesting against.
Be respectful and don't give the anti-gun groups cannon-fodder to justify their anti-gun agendas. 

The goals of gun-owners and hunters should be outreach and education with facts.  Many people that are afraid of guns (anti-gun) and/or may also be anti-hunting may have those opinions because of their lack of exposure and knowledge on the subjects.  Some may base their opinions on a single personal experience or they have succumb to lies and propaganda. 

Emotions run high when madmen carry out their malevolent deeds on innocent people using a gun.  We don't hear outrage against cars when a car is used to plow through a group of innocent people on a sidewalk, or against kitchen knives, hammers, baseball bats, or other such items when they are used for evil acts of violence.  It is easy for anti-gunners to blame the tool (gun) versus focusing on the real issues like mental illness, drug abuse, gangs, cultural decay, loss of family values, economic decay, etc.  Anti-gun zealots will seize all opportunities to use any gun-related event to further their anti-gun agendas; all gun-owners need to be aware of this.  That said, all gun-owners must be mindful of the image they project in the public eye; public perception is very powerful.

Laws that are unconstitutional and/or unjust need to be changed or repealed through the judicial and/or legislative processes.  Be patient and get involved.  Join and contribute to the organizations that are fighting these battles for us.

All people need to become more engaged in our political processes.  Those that did not VOTE have no right to complain about the representation or laws that result from our elections.

 

Passing guns to each other will be illegal at this time and I believe this should be done to illustrate how ridiculous the law is.  Normally, I would agree with you on most of these points, but I don't think the average voter or lawmaker understood just how ridiculous 594 is.

[Kittman]

And wonder what is the 594 law is doing to address these real bad guys?  I'm quite confident these criminals/thieves could care less...

http://mynorthwest.com/11/2648063/Body-found-believed-to-be-that-of-home-invasion-robber

[billythekidrock]

I am not against a rally or protest, but this one is already making us look bad.

HOW???

I am old enough to know that anything the "press" said is biased at best.

Standing up for ones Rights even if others "don't get it" is a good thing.

I believe that is in reference to a call for a showing of arms (public open carry rally) referred to in another thread.

My opinion in this thread has nothing to do with open carry. It has to do with the actual actions they are proposing. Expressing to the news that you are going to be passing guns back and forth in defiance of the law, when that is not against the law is silly to say the least.

Standing up for our rights is a good thing, but people need to know what and why they are standing for.

[JimmyHoffa]

And wonder what is the 594 law is doing to address these real bad guys?  I'm quite confident these criminals/thieves could care less...

http://mynorthwest.com/11/2648063/Body-found-believed-to-be-that-of-home-invasion-robber

594 will embolden those criminals and make it safer for them to do even more home invasions.  Then people will be more dependent on government or private security for their protection.

[csaaphill]

"We're going to pass guns. We're going to encourage people to freely buy and sell guns. We're going to violate I-594 in every possible way because it's void and we're declaring it publicly that I-594 will not be tolerated," says Gavin Seim is a professional photographer and gun owner who is organizing the "I Will Not Comply Rally."
 
"The collective majority does not have the right to vote away the rights of another," he says.
 and how it should be

[Elkaholic daWg]

 2 things liberals do NOT believe in......
 God, and unintended consequences

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/19/museum-will-remove-world-world-ii-era-rifles-because-of-new-state-law/

 This museum is complying.....

[csaaphill]

2 things liberals do NOT believe in......
 God, and unintended consequences

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/19/museum-will-remove-world-world-ii-era-rifles-because-of-new-state-law/

 This museum is complying.....

read that made me sick 

[huntrights]

2 things liberals do NOT believe in......
 God, and unintended consequences

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/19/museum-will-remove-world-world-ii-era-rifles-because-of-new-state-law/

 This museum is complying.....

 
Another unintended consequence of a bad law.  The supporters of I-594 would have most likely called this situation just a "hypothetical" situation that is very unlikely to occur and not the intent of the law.  OOPS! Or, is this and other ominous "unintended consequences" the actual intention of the law?  The citizens of Washington were obviously misled by billionaire-funded propaganda; unfortunately the people that voted for I-594 bought into the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

One has to wonder when future initiative-driven bad laws funded by billionaires and their carefully crafted propaganda will result in book burning and censoring, or worse.  Think about how Hitler gradually took away the rights of the German people with the promises of a better life for all.  We all know where that led.

[Curly]

I think what we need is an initiative to outlaw initiatives.  Of course it probably wouldn't pass, but I think it would be best to not have initiatives.  Look what they've brought us - bear baiting ban, trapping ban, hunting with hounds ban and 594.

Sure, a lot of politicians are lying scum, but they do get elected for a reason.  Seems like it's better to take our chances with even poor politicians than leave votes up to the people in this state.  The voters in this state have proven to be idiots......I'd rather take my chances with the idiots that get elected and let them deal with making laws.

[huntrights]

Initiatives can be good or bad depending on which side of the fence you may be on.  Unfortunately, initiatives are passed by a simple majority in this state which is not good; that means 51% of the people can tell 49% of the people what to do.  In this state, initiatives will obviously lead to disaster for gun-owners and hunters every time due the extreme, liberal/socialist, anti-gun, anti-hunting tendencies of many of the people that live in some of our densely populated urban areas.  The trampling of rights are further jeopardized when billionaires throw in millions of dollars to fund a propaganda campaign.  What's next?

Perhaps it would be better if initiatives required a super majority of the votes (2/3) in order to enact new laws.  This may be something to pursue to ensure bad laws are not passed.  If a 2/3 majority were required, I-594 would not have passed.  A 2/3 vote would be easy to pass if it is a good law being proposed.

By the way, many warnings were issued regarding the spreading of this type of anti-gun legislation if I-594 passed.  Here's another one:

"Oregon lawmakers work to restrict private transfers"
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/in-the-news/2014/11/oregon-lawmakers-work-to-restrict-private-transfers.aspx

"Oregon Democrats ready to expand gun checks"
http://www.bluemountaineagle.com/bme/capital-bureau/20141118/oregon-democrats-ready-to-expand-gun-checks

Not to make a politically partisan comment, but the facts continue to show which political party tends to attack our 2A rights.  Keep that in mind next time you vote.  There are a few good representatives in that party who do support and defend our 2A rights; they may deserve some support, but definitely look at their voting records.

[hub]

The initative process is a failed process that should be scrapped. It is the root cause for a lot of bad laws. A non binding referendum to is see where the people stand is fine. I hope the legislature will put a stop to this insanity before its too late.

[yorketransport]

Initiatives can be good or bad depending on which side of the fence you may be on.  Unfortunately, initiatives are passed by a simple majority in this state which is not good; that means 51% of the people can tell 49% of the people what to do.  In this state, initiatives will obviously lead to disaster for gun-owners and hunters every time due the extreme, liberal/socialist, anti-gun, anti-hunting tendencies of many of the people that live in some of our densely populated urban areas.  The trampling of rights are further jeopardized when billionaires throw in millions of dollars to fund a propaganda campaign.  What's next?

So the lesson here is that Democracy is bad?

You can't support democracy and then be frustrated when it doesn't go your way. And you can't be mad at private parties throwing money into a "propaganda campaign" when both sides do the same thing. In this case the anti gun side had more money. Apply this same logic other ideological debates and I bet you'll find that sometimes it's the more conservative side throwing money at a campaign instead of the liberal side. Then the "liberals" will be complaining about the rich conservatives buying votes.

[wsmnut]

So the lesson here is that Democracy is bad?

You can't support democracy and then be frustrated when it doesn't go your way. And you can't be mad at private parties throwing money into a "propaganda campaign" when both sides do the same thing. In this case the anti gun side had more money. Apply this same logic other ideological debates and I bet you'll find that sometimes it's the more conservative side throwing money at a campaign instead of the liberal side. Then the "liberals" will be complaining about the rich conservatives buying votes.
[/quote]

Very well said!

Wsmnut

[Lucky1]

Initiatives can be good or bad depending on which side of the fence you may be on.  Unfortunately, initiatives are passed by a simple majority in this state which is not good; that means 51% of the people can tell 49% of the people what to do.  In this state, initiatives will obviously lead to disaster for gun-owners and hunters every time due the extreme, liberal/socialist, anti-gun, anti-hunting tendencies of many of the people that live in some of our densely populated urban areas.  The trampling of rights are further jeopardized when billionaires throw in millions of dollars to fund a propaganda campaign.  What's next?

So the lesson here is that Democracy is bad?

You can't support democracy and then be frustrated when it doesn't go your way. And you can't be mad at private parties throwing money into a "propaganda campaign" when both sides do the same thing. In this case the anti gun side had more money. Apply this same logic other ideological debates and I bet you'll find that sometimes it's the more conservative side throwing money at a campaign instead of the liberal side. Then the "liberals" will be complaining about the rich conservatives buying votes.

Pure democracy can be a bad way to run a country or state. We have a constitutional republic with democratic processes. The constitution and the rule of law prevent the majority from infringing on the rights of the minority. Picture 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what's for dinner.
I believe many states do not have the initiative process and their government seems to work ok. I am for getting rid of the initiative process.

[huntrights]

Lucky1 did a good job of explaining it.

Yes, absolutely; straight democracy is BAD.  That is why our system of government in the Untied States is a Constitutional Republic; it is NOT straight democracy.  Absolute democracy would allow 51% of the people to control and dominate 49% of the people; that system of government does NOT work.  That is why we have the Bill of Rights; they cannot be taken away.  Although, the 51% keep trying to do so (i.e. I-594 and the bad anti-gun laws passed in states like New York).

We elect our local, state, and U.S. representatives through the democratic process (simple majority); They are supposed to support and defend the Constitution (Oath of Office).  However, the system is different for the Presidential elections.  "The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in the Constitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens.

The Electoral College process consists of the selection of the electors, the meeting of the electors where they vote for President and Vice President, and the counting of the electoral votes by Congress.

The Electoral College consists of 538 electors. A majority of 270 electoral votes is required to elect the President. Your state’s entitled allotment of electors equals the number of members in its Congressional delegation: one for each member in the House of Representatives plus two for your Senators." (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/about.html)

The President and Vice President are also supposed to support and defend the Constitution (Oath of Office).

When the outcome of initiatives are significantly influenced by the propaganda funded by billionaires with an agenda, then initiatives that are decided by a simple majority are bad and can be abused as seen with I-594.  This is an issue that should be looked at closely, and changed if necessary, to ensure the initiative process is not abused to create a situation in which 51% of the people control 49% of the people.  When it comes to initiatives, it might be better if initiatives required a super-majority in order to be passed into law or for the legislature to use them as advisory tools to get a feel for what their constituency wants.  Look at I-1351; that initiative almost literally passed with 51% of the votes; that is, 51% of the people are telling the other 49% of the people what to do.

Using Lucky1's example: Picture 51 wolves and 49 sheep voting on what's for dinner.  The outcome will never be good for the sheep even though they make up nearly half of the population.  In the case of I-1351, there were 1,049,437 (50.94%) wolves and 1,010,707 (49.06%) sheep as of today.

[hub]

Good posts by Lucky1 and Huntrights. I like what  you both said.   

[Curly]

 

 

[csaaphill]

So the lesson here is that Democracy is bad?

YES! 
Because were a Republic Not a Democracy at least that is how they orginally set us to be.
That is why so many quotes against Democracy because it goes this way where the the mob rules!
I fully beleive in my investigation on this subject they knew these day's would come and we would eventually turn to Democracy rather than a Republic.

[csaaphill]

I heard that interview while I was working yesterday. The whole thing just made me cringe. The pro gun movement needs to invest some time and money into a decent PR rep if they're going to help public image. Gavin did far more damage in that 3 minutes than anyone could have expected from either side of the debate. I mean honestly, stating that you'll defend your self with a firearm from any criminal after explaining how the government officials are criminals? These are not the people I want representing me or my interests!

I am not against a rally or protest, but this one is already making us look bad.

Getting a bunch of angry gun owners together in an act of protest and encouraging them to bring their guns is just a recipe for disaster and confrontation. The reason any social movement is successful is because it plays to peoples' emotions. The Anti gun movement is successful because they play to everyone's sense of humanity. The Pro gun movement feeds off of the fear and anger of the pro gun supporters. Just look at the tactics used by the NRA. Fear and anger will never help this cause.

I wish everyone would just understand the difference between enemies and opponents. There are enemies in wars and opponents in ideological disagreements. The gun debate is just that, a debate, not a war. The anti gun groups are not enemies to be threatened or defeated. They are simply opponents to be converted and persuaded.

Andrew

The anti gun groups are not enemies BULL they are traitors and should be dealt with as such!
Don't think for one moment that they don't count us as such for they do! Moms who demand action have sated that anytime they see a person with a gun they will either shoot or call the cops and have us killed. It's called swating.
SO they do that stuff you bet they are the enemy. Civil disobedience is always the first step to any good freedom movement.
I am appauled at how many want to turn tail and run on this and defeat a civil disobedience movement even before they get started.

[huntrights]

2 things liberals do NOT believe in......
 God, and unintended consequences

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/19/museum-will-remove-world-world-ii-era-rifles-because-of-new-state-law/

 This museum is complying.....

 
Another unintended consequence of a bad law.  The supporters of I-594 would have most likely called this situation just a "hypothetical" situation that is very unlikely to occur and not the intent of the law.  OOPS! Or, is this and other ominous "unintended consequences" the actual intention of the law?  The citizens of Washington were obviously misled by billionaire-funded propaganda; unfortunately the people that voted for I-594 bought into the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

One has to wonder when future initiative-driven bad laws funded by billionaires and their carefully crafted propaganda will result in book burning and censoring, or worse.  Think about how Hitler gradually took away the rights of the German people with the promises of a better life for all.  We all know where that led.

"Ill-conceived Washington State Background Check Initiative Already Causing Absurd Outcomes"
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/11/ill-conceived-washington-state-background-check-initiative-already-causing-absurd-outcomes.aspx

Excerpt from the article:
"NRA is committed to doing everything we can to fight I-594 on behalf of our members in Washington State. We are already in discussions about legislative remedies to the most onerous provisions. As always, we will continue to work in whatever arena is realistic – legislative, legal or political – to address the concerns of our members."

Please support the NRA by joining or upgrading your NRA membership.  Also, please donate when you can.  They are fighting for us.

National Rifle Association (NRA)
http://home.nra.org/
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

[csaaphill]

2 things liberals do NOT believe in......
 God, and unintended consequences

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/19/museum-will-remove-world-world-ii-era-rifles-because-of-new-state-law/

 This museum is complying.....

 
Another unintended consequence of a bad law.  The supporters of I-594 would have most likely called this situation just a "hypothetical" situation that is very unlikely to occur and not the intent of the law.  OOPS! Or, is this and other ominous "unintended consequences" the actual intention of the law?  The citizens of Washington were obviously misled by billionaire-funded propaganda; unfortunately the people that voted for I-594 bought into the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

One has to wonder when future initiative-driven bad laws funded by billionaires and their carefully crafted propaganda will result in book burning and censoring, or worse.  Think about how Hitler gradually took away the rights of the German people with the promises of a better life for all.  We all know where that led.

"Ill-conceived Washington State Background Check Initiative Already Causing Absurd Outcomes"
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/11/ill-conceived-washington-state-background-check-initiative-already-causing-absurd-outcomes.aspx

Excerpt from the article:
"NRA is committed to doing everything we can to fight I-594 on behalf of our members in Washington State. We are already in discussions about legislative remedies to the most onerous provisions. As always, we will continue to work in whatever arena is realistic – legislative, legal or political – to address the concerns of our members."

Please support the NRA by joining or upgrading your NRA membership.  Also, please donate when you can.  They are fighting for us.

National Rifle Association (NRA)
http://home.nra.org/
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

as usual compromise Heck no I wont 'comply no matter what.
It's ok they are doing this good go for it but take out the law all the way not just fight some languages in it 
i say no don't comply cold dead hands should mean something not just a fancy statement!