Arrow ?s

[Seahawk12]

As long as we are on the subject of arrows and comparisons, I would like to know if any of you like the Alloy/Carbon Hunting Arrows and/or the Full Metal Jacket Hunting Arrows? I was reading about them on Eastons site the other day, but I can't remember even seeing them for sell in a store before.
If this is too out of line with the OPs subject line I can create a new thread.

[RadSav]

As long as we are on the subject of arrows and comparisons, I would like to know if any of you like the Alloy/Carbon Hunting Arrows and/or the Full Metal Jacket Hunting Arrows? I was reading about them on Eastons site the other day, but I can't remember even seeing them for sell in a store before.
If this is too out of line with the OPs subject line I can create a new thread.

Great arrows!  Of the two I prefer the A/C/C Pro Hunter, but I do keep both on hand at all times.  I'm not the biggest fan of Easton carbon shafts.  However the Aluminum/Carbon arrows are a masterpiece.  They are expensive and a little heavy for many things, but they are easy to make WA legal and worth every penny IMO!  I love the fact that I do not need to align the spline prior to fletching to get the best results...just clean and fletch.  That's it

The Easton X nock is outstanding.  My goal this year is to make Uni-Bushings for all my Carbon Express arrows so I can use the X-Nock in my "All Carbon" arrows too!

[Florida_Native]

Ok so I did a lot of research today and thought I had the arrows I needed based on spine, grains, draw length and weight. But then I find out I need more weight because of washington regulation.

So my question is does any of this matter in Washington. Can I have the best arrow for my setup? If so where can I find this. I would support a local shop but feel as though this will not be price sensative. I really can't justify a $90 set of arrows.

[RadSav]

Ok so I did a lot of research today and thought I had the arrows I needed based on spine, grains, draw length and weight. But then I find out I need more weight because of washington regulation.

So my question is does any of this matter in Washington. Can I have the best arrow for my setup? If so where can I find this. I would support a local shop but feel as though this will not be price sensative. I really can't justify a $90 set of arrows.

What quantity are you thinking when you say "set of arrows"?  Getting a dozen high grade arrows for under $90 these days is dang near impossible.  I'm usually way north of $100 and I pay wholesale prices!

A lot of arrow choice comes down to honest assessment of your effective shooting range.  For an average shooter with a maximum effective shooting range of 40 or 50 yards...quality of arrow really doesn't mean too much.  An average bowhunter shooting under 40 yards will probably never exceed the limits of a Beman ICS or an Easton Epic.  And it is not impossible to get a dozen bargain shafts that match with great consistency.

For years the wife was shooting Beman ICS shafts.  I would buy three dozen at a time and sort by spine, weight and straightness.  Some years the three dozen would produce a single good dozen arrows.  Other years the three dozen would produce maybe 30 grade "A" matched shafts.  Only Easton A/C/C and Carbon Express have exceeded 30 Grade "A" shafts in a three dozen batch for me!

Also, if we fletch a single fletching color and rotate nocks for groups we can usually get grade "B & C" arrows to group the same as "A" shafts with a fair amount of consistency.  Tossing very few of those three dozen into the kiddies bucket at the local range.

Guys like John Huevel who correct my range targets by letting me know my 110 yard target is actually 110.5 yards can definitely tell the difference between a low tolerance arrow and a premium target class arrow.  But, there are very few John Huevel's in this world!  Most of us mere mortals will never notice the difference between a Beman ICS and an X10.  The honest assessment is, we just aren't that good!!!

Think of arrows like cars.  We all know the E-Class Mercedes is a sexier and higher performance car than our Kia Forte or Optima.  But few of us could ever push the Mercedes to it's potential with WA roads and speed limits.  Plus that Kia still gets us where we want to go on time and with great reliability.  We just might not pick up the chicks or look as cool in the Safeway parking lot 

This doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to have the very best set of matched arrows we can afford.  But it doesn't mean our light wallet can't afford exactly what we need either.


So much of what makes a great hunting arrow is in FOC and shaft rotation.  For the majority of all carbon shafts that means good properly offset fletching more than shaft construction.  Unfortunately mass produced bargain arrows rarely have good offset fletching.  That is where the hand fletched arrows of a good pro-shop really make the higher price worth the added expense.  I would rather shoot a properly fletched Easton Epic (a shaft I despise!!!) than to shoot an A/C/C or Carbon Express Maxima with straight fletched garbage fletching.  Good pro-shop fletched shafts, even of the bargain brand/model, are worth every penny over machine fletched shafts of the same quality.  And of course you could always invest in a fletching jig and fletch your own.  In a couple years that will probably save you more money than buying mass produced bargains.

[scottcrb]

hey radsav when is that fletching seminar your teaching?

[RadSav]

hey radsav when is that fletching seminar your teaching?

Buy a good jig, buy some good glue, buy some good fletching, buy some good lacquer thinner.  Clean shaft, let dry, put fletching in jig, apply glue to fletching, place clamp on arrow, wait 10-15 minutes, remove clamp and repeat.  It's that easy!  Who needs a seminar for that?

[Florida_Native]

First of all thanks for the info Radsav and everyone else!

I read exactly what your saying. That most shooters will never notice the difference in straightness. The article specifically listed plus or minus 3 to plus or minus 1. It didn't say anything about deflection and so I assumed that one would notice the difference in an arrow that deflects properly based on draw weight and arrow length.

Now here is where I am also doing some assuming Washington has the 6 grains per pound minimum and most arrows I saw didn't meet this. I assume that diameter affects deflection and thus weight/grains. Therefore with the gain minimum I will never have the best arrow for my setup. Please correct my inaccuracies.

In all of this I am seeing the benefits of a proshop but would still like to educate myself. Also where does one find arrows that meet the minimum weight for Washington? I would like to do some online paroosing before I buy.

[RadSav]

Don't forget that Washington minimum weight is inclusive of your insert, point, nock and fletching weight.  And it is best to eliminate "Speed" as a motivating factor in deciding what is best.  If you follow only speed you'll likely end up down one dark rabbit hole with no solution for getting out.

There was a study done years ago with aluminum shafts that stated even the most finely tuned bow could not shoot a .001 straightness arrow better than a .005" straightness arrow.  If that was truly the case with aluminum it is most certainly the case with carbon.  But, spline and uniformity of spine does make a difference at longer ranges and that is what separates a good arrow from a great arrow.  Doesn't really matter what material or weight as long as uniformity fits the expectation.

Wall thickness and weight have very little to do with the accuracy of an arrow.  So I am having some difficulty in your reasoning that you can not find the best arrow for your setup in Washington.  A properly spined A/C/C or Mayhem would certainly meet Washington's 6 grain rule with even close to average draw length.  And few arrows on todays market will come close to their performance and accuracy. So I guess I am looking for clarification as to what "best for my setup" means to you.

Wall thickness is just one of the many ways to effect weight of an arrow.  Quality of materials (carbon purity), various resins and diameter have as much if not more to do with weight.  Spine is a formula of two different stretch and compression factors; One consisting of the O.D. and the other consisting of the wall thickness.  In essence a small diameter shaft must have an increased wall thickness to reach the same spine as a large diameter thin walled shaft.  Material has the least effect in regards to static spine, but can be a more motivating factor in regards to dynamic spine.  Thus the reason a 340 spine aluminum arrow is not rated for as high a poundage bow as a 340 spine carbon arrow is.

Some times we get caught up in the notion that we can buy success when the reality is to the contrary.  In the end it is nothing more than a stick and a string that shoots another stick.  Matched properly they are amazing tools of great accuracy.  But it is our own personal ability to master control of the stick that ultimately decides our fate.

[xXLojackXx]

Go talk to the fellas at Spokane Valley Archery and they'll take care of you and be able to match a good arrow to your set up.

[BULLBLASTER]

Go talk to the fellas at Spokane Valley Archery and they'll take care of you and be able to match a good arrow to your set up.

this is great advice if you want to be belittled and treated like trash! I will never ever step foot inside that place, nor will they get a dime of mine due to experiences the times i have tried to go there for help and buy items.
I live 5 minutes from there and still drive almost an hour to a shop that treats customers well.

Maybe you will have a different experience than me and i hope you do if you go there.

The advice of going to a shop to get correctly set up arrows is spot on tho!

[RadSav]

I never hear much about Spokane Valley so I have nothing to say one way or the other.  But, Whitetail Plus shouldn't be too far away.  We hear a lot of compliments about them!  At least gives you a second option

[Florida_Native]

Best for my setup you could throw out the window. Essentially I want the info to do a cost benefit analasys. If I get get a $50 set up that Ill never be able to out perform then why by the $90 set up that Ill also never be able to outperform. Also want to make sure I'm legal.

Also good to know my logic was flawed.  Would you mind if I Pm'd you Radsav for your input on a setup I put together.  I'd like to understand this stuff.

[Florida_Native]

I did stop by spokane Valley archery. They picked up pretty quickly I was a beginner but I didn't feel talked down to. One guy helped me fix the draw length that was set up correctly  and sight in my bow. Only charged $10.

I've also heard bad things but thought I tell my experience. They are pricey though.

[RadSav]

PM away!  That's one of the reasons I frequent this site.

If the fletching is assembled the same on the $50 arrows as it is on the $90 dollar arrows I expect you should be just fine with the $50 arrows.  But be warned the economy arrows are rarely ever fletched properly for good consistent flight in all weather conditions.  And while straightness isn't a deal breaker inconsistent spline and spine are.  Sometimes with economy arrows you just don't know what you are getting until the money has already left your bank account.

[BULLBLASTER]

Glad you had a good experience at sva. I agree with what radsav has said that in most cases arrow prep and assembly will trump straightness. I use .oo3 straightness arrows and fletch my own.