Trapper takes eight wolves in a month

[cougarbart]

07-09 wolves were just finally reaching maxium capacity for their species in those years! I hound hunted those years and that's when we seen a huge (loss/move) in the elk in the joe! I'm a firm believer in some areas wolves push game out of the area more than kill the herd! Exception lolo herd because they wintered on the north fork and were slaughtered bad by wolves! In most areas the elk will move closer to civilization example dworshack herd that has really been pushed into the field of unit 8a were now hunters have basically unlimited cow hunting because of farmers claim of damage!

[bearpaw]

Well I have been up the joe the last 10 years and good luck trying to hear a bugle now! But that's probably because of the harsh winters! Cause people blame the wolves!

Hunting was still pretty good through about 07...09 and 10 is when I would say things went south quickly.

IDFG is on top of wolves because the people proved the impacts, at first IDFG denied impacts, I have the old news stories to prove it.

Post 'em up...I would love to see the details of what evidence you believe supports the notion that IDFG was denying or hiding impacts.  Maybe I missed it 

Let me say, I am in full support of IDFG more aggressive management the last couple years, but here are a few examples of IDFG ignoring wolf impacts in years past before the people of Idaho got IDFG on the right page:


Tom Bergerud top wolf expert from BC told the IDFG  the following:
 "I predict that you´re going to have major impacts from wolves in this state," (Idaho) he said. I predict a major elk decline.
He said that he saw wolves "repeatedly depress moose, caribou and elk populations while studying them throughout Canada and in some cases they wiped out local populations of caribou."
"I've watched herd after herd (of caribou) go EXTINCT across Canada," he said. The problem: wolves have no known predators to keep them in balance with the ecosystem..”


"In general, elk herds are doing very well in Idaho," Niemeyer said, pointing out that elk herds were in decline in some areas before the wolves were released. He disputed that there is any scientific evidence that wolves have reduced elk herds. Fish and Game Department wildlife biologist Steve Nadeau said the issue is more complex and that both extremes -- those predicting wolves will annihilate big game and those claiming the predators are harmless to big game are wrong."...........Steve Nadeau, IDFG /Carter Niemeyer (USFWS), 5-16-2002


"There are so many factors affecting elk populations, and wolves are only one of them, and likely not the most important one," said biologist Steve Nadeau, Fish and Game's large carnivore coordinator. Nadeau said Fish and Game has attempted to learn more about the impacts of wolves, especially in places where elk numbers are declining. He hears many complaints from hunters. He said it's likely the numbers aren't decreasing, the elk are more wary with wolves around. They don't spend as much time in the open and are more careful about making their presence known, he said. "The majority of what hunters are seeing are behavioral changes rather than population changes," Nadeau said"..........Steve Nadeau IDFG large carnivore coordinator 6-24-2004


http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/Outdoorsman_No_39%20May_2010.pdf
IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law
The Truth about Idaho’s Declining Elk Harvests

I have worked closely with Idaho Fish and Game issues since 1957 and, despite the clear requirements in I.C. Sec. 36-104(b), I have never seen the F&G Commission listen to citizen testimony and then decide game declines require season changes or other emergency action until biologists finally admit it is necessary. This is usually one or several years later and then only after citizens have sought help from their legislators to force the action.

The claims by IDFG biologists and wolf advocates that all is well in the majority of elk units are patently false. In the following pages you will learn that every elk unit or zone in Idaho with a significant wolf population also has severe ongoing declines in annual hunter harvests.

http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/Outdoorsman_No_38_Feb-April_2010_IdahoFG_Director_Warns_FG_Commission_Not_to_Show_Controversial_Wolf_Documents_to_Public.pdf
Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public
By George Dovel

Despite Existing Proof, F&G Continues to Hide: 1) Its Role in Wolf Introduction and 2) Its Failure to Legally Remove Wolves Decimating Elk and Deer Populations

http://magicvalley.com/news/local/wood-river/article_64d3fe91-1afd-5794-b5a0-62129c6f11ca.html?mode=story
F&G: Wolves not causing most elk losses
July 31, 2010

[wolfbait]

Thanks Bearpaw > That pretty much sums up where WDFW is at now and where we are headed down the road. Welcome to WDF&Wolves.

[cougarbart]

Ok so what your saying is Idaho should not listen to Canadian biologist cause they are dumb and don't know Idaho! (Uh oh I guess what they warned us about happened) wdfw is saying well Idaho don't know how the wolf is gonna effect washington! I understand your big picture in politics of the wolf but for goodness sakes when is someone gonna learn from others and have proactive management from the beginning and not wait till after devastation! Even if they opened hunting for wolves right now in ten years wolves would still expand and reach the desired goals!

[hollymaster]

Nothing more complicated than simply one state vs another.  Legal there, protected here.

Hopefully Washington will follow suit.

Of course, I wonder if you can catch a wolf in a cage trap....

And release it in Seattle.   

[idahohuntr]

No, I did not say the Canadian biologist was dumb. However, I would not characterize the statewide elk population as experiencing a major decline...in some entire zones it has increased...substantially.  Many it has been very steady, and yes some like the Lolo have experienced major declines...starting in the late 1980's, being very profound after the winter of 96, and continuing to be suppressed because of a combination of predators and poor habitat.

[idahohuntr]

These "changes in management" and "proving IDFG wrong" are all in your head.     IDFG has no illusions about predators and predator management...they also understand what has to be done when dealing with federally listed species.  While you say you now approve of what they are doing...those are the same folks that were in place in the late 90's and early 2000's that were doing the ground work to establish the predator management program in place today.  Its unfortunate you can only see what's right in front of you...thank goodness we have public servants in many of these state agencies that can see farther down the road than next weeks hunt.

At least you are now willing to admit IDFG is doing a good job...many aren't even willing to admit that...baby steps I guess. 

[bearpaw]

These "changes in management" and "proving IDFG wrong" are all in your head.     IDFG has no illusions about predators and predator management...they also understand what has to be done when dealing with federally listed species.  While you say you now approve of what they are doing...those are the same folks that were in place in the late 90's and early 2000's that were doing the ground work to establish the predator management program in place today.  Its unfortunate you can only see what's right in front of you...thank goodness we have public servants in many of these state agencies that can see farther down the road than next weeks hunt.

At least you are now willing to admit IDFG is doing a good job...many aren't even willing to admit that...baby steps I guess. 

Maybe you don't realize it but the director has changed many times. 

[idahohuntr]

These "changes in management" and "proving IDFG wrong" are all in your head.     IDFG has no illusions about predators and predator management...they also understand what has to be done when dealing with federally listed species.  While you say you now approve of what they are doing...those are the same folks that were in place in the late 90's and early 2000's that were doing the ground work to establish the predator management program in place today.  Its unfortunate you can only see what's right in front of you...thank goodness we have public servants in many of these state agencies that can see farther down the road than next weeks hunt.

At least you are now willing to admit IDFG is doing a good job...many aren't even willing to admit that...baby steps I guess. 

Maybe you don't realize it but the director has changed many times. 

What you don't realize is the last several directors (and all of the directors since wolves have been a significant issue) spent nearly their entire careers working up IDFG ranks and have been involved in most of the significant agency activities...Virgil Moore, Cal Groen, Steve Huffaker...lifetime IDFG staff...the deputy directors Kiefer and Unsworth...been there a long, long time.     

[bearpaw]

The point is that the management has changed repeatedly and so have the wildlife commissioners over time. The change has been for the better as each director and commission has their own priorities! Virgil Moore said his priority is elk and I think IDFG have made some good changes like more aggressive wolf management to help bring back several of the elk herds which were so poorly managed by many previous directors! 

https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/content/sites/default/files/Open%20Letter%20From%20Director%20Virgil%20Moore.pdf

[Landowner]

Hats off to the guy getting 8 wolves.  Go get more.   

[bugs n bones]

That trapper deserves a medal

[bearpaw]

We removed any comments with negative comments toward another member (including my own), let's try to keep it on topic. THANKS

[Curly]

Hats off to the guy getting 8 wolves.  Go get more.   

 

I hope he gets some help with expenses too.