Pittman Robertson funds were illegally diverted to fund wolf introduction

[bearpaw]

While I'm all for making sure my tax dollars are used appropriately I get the impression that some of you perhaps think wolf re-introduction would not have happened if only Jim Beers had blown the whistle sooner?  You all do realize wolf re-introduction planning started in the 1980's and was supported and approved by Congress?...I just don't really see why any of this matters from a wolf perspective...a federal bureaucracy issue with minor implications...ok...but a real wildlife management issue? Not even close. 

Even if its all one big conspiracy and crime perpetrated by a bunch of crooks...how does it matter for future wolf management?  Are wolves going to be de-listed in Washington because we now know that USFWS MIGHT have used the wrong color of money in executing their congressionally authorized activities?  I think its swell if folks want to pursue this and spend their time looking at ways to improve red tape process that doesn't mean jack in the real world...maybe USFWS should have used a different appropriation or sought additional appropriations from Congress (which they would have received)...either way, wolves would still be here.   

backpeddling a little eehh....

The only reason I went to the trouble of locating all this info at this point is because of your incessant statements and misinformation that wolves were not an illegal introduction. I have publicly proven how funds were stolen illegally and then used to plant wolves. It's sad that not one state challenged the theft of millions in funds from the states and that USFWS was allowed to treat the whistleblowers the way they did. I also think it's sad that you don't even seem to care that millions were illegally diverted from fish and wildlife management by a government agency that is supposed to serve the people and that honest employees were mistreated, unfortunately that says something. 

Looking forward we need to educate people on the damage done by wolves so we can manage them someday in this state. I just made a $50 donation to help keep up the billboards in Spokane. I'm hoping others will join the effort. 


Washington Residents against wolves
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The billboard that is up in four locations in Spokane:

[Hilltop123]

DC needs an enama....... And jail the rest

[idahohuntr]

Bearpaw - The United States Congress, 2 Federal Courts, and The President of the United States across 3 administrations and all of their Secretaries of Interior put in place the funding, documents, framework, plans, legal opinions/judgements etc. for re-introduction and recovery of Gray Wolves in the NRM states.  That is a fact you need to acknowledge before even possibly beginning to discuss whatever rounding error Mr. Beers found in his UNPROVEN allegations. 

For you to try and characterize the massive re-introduction effort as being illegal on what is a very minor nuance which has NEVER BEEN PROVEN...that would be akin to saying the Seahawks didn't actually win the superbowl last year because the refs THOUGHT that one of the game balls maybe was under inflated by one psi.  Well by golly, technically I guess maybe the game should have been stopped or something...and Broncos fans will have something to cry about...but everyone else would say...you lost 43-8...shut up and go home. 

[wolfbait]

What the heck is wrong with you Bearpaw?     You can provide all the info in the world that supports the fact that the wolf introduction into the lower 48 was illegal. You can post the facts on the ground of 18 years, proving that where there are wolves, game herds are impacted greatly, if your info. or anyone else's does not fit the agenda of the pro wolf crowd, they will weasel around that area until they come up with a new set of facts that fit their agenda.


It does not matter how many times info. is posted proving time after time the history of the wolf introduction, according to the pro-wolf crowd without a picture it is "UNPROVEN allegations." When picture and documentation is provide they still come up with "UNPROVEN allegations".

Takes quite a bit of weaseling to wipe out 18 years.

Thank you for taking the time to look the info. up and posting it for the rest of the people on W-H who aren't wearing blinders. 

[bearpaw]

Bearpaw - The United States Congress, 2 Federal Courts, and The President of the United States across 3 administrations and all of their Secretaries of Interior put in place the funding, documents, framework, plans, legal opinions/judgements etc. for re-introduction and recovery of Gray Wolves in the NRM states.  That is a fact you need to acknowledge before even possibly beginning to discuss whatever rounding error Mr. Beers found in his UNPROVEN allegations. 

For you to try and characterize the massive re-introduction effort as being illegal on what is a very minor nuance which has NEVER BEEN PROVEN...that would be akin to saying the Seahawks didn't actually win the superbowl last year because the refs THOUGHT that one of the game balls maybe was under inflated by one psi.  Well by golly, technically I guess maybe the game should have been stopped or something...and Broncos fans will have something to cry about...but everyone else would say...you lost 43-8...shut up and go home. 

You are incorrect again, just admit that congress did not authorize the illegal funding of wolf introduction using stolen P-R funds. 

But, I see exactly how it is, as long as the end result suits your narrative it doesn't matter what injustices occurred to get there! You will only come back with some rhetoric that wolf introduction was going to happen one way or another so it doesn't matter what laws were broken, what dedicated P-R funding was stolen, or what honest employees were mistreated.

Your apathy of this affair are a testament to why certain agencies and leaders can get away with such illegal, unconstitutional, activities in this country. Yes, looking forward we are stuck with wolves and we need to concentrate on getting them delisted. That doesn't negate the corruption and illegal actions that have occurred in the process. 

[idahohuntr]

USFWS has broad authority on the use of PR funds as they administer them to the states.  They decide what the states can use the money for.  Furthermore, the PR act has a few very broad objectives...the first one is restoration of wild birds and mammals...wolf recovery and restoration clearly fits within this authority granted by Congress.  Your or Beers' use of the word "stolen" is ridiculous.  Its a federal excise tax managed by USFWS...again, they decide how and what projects states get to fund.  Its been that way forever. 

Here is a link to a timeline on wolf recovery issues from IDFG...it gives you a much better perspective of just how aware and involved Congress had to be for wolf reintroduction to happen. http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/wolves/?getPage=161

I opposed re-introduction.  However, if folks have some fascination that if Beers' allegations can be proven that somehow that would have any effect on wolf management or whether they would have been released in the lower 48 or whether it could possibly lead to removal or less protections...absolutely not at all.  Like it or not, and many of us do not, wolf re-introduction was and is legal.  Was there an accounting error in this multi-decade intensive and controversial effort?  I would be shocked if any federal agency could pull off a large project without some minor issue like this popping up. 

[Special T]

The goal posts were moved in regards to the "experimental" population into YNP. Once there the issue morphed into reintroduction of a non native species which is what opponents feared from the beginning.

ID never got its proper importation permits to bring wolves in. I guess im still baffled by this one since there is PLENTY of documentation you MUST have to bring livestock across the border.

With most things political it is VERY hard to trust the word of Gov official. The main reason is accountability. Some things can be undone when the Politician or Gov employees is fired. The reason why "wolves" is such a hot button issue is because it cannot be undone. Even if Wa, ID MT, WY etc allowed massive trapping and shooting year round we still couldn't get rid of all the wolves even if we wanted to.

I think we have been Slow Played (to borrow a poker term). We have been suckered in with promises, Management goals, & Compensation. While there have been a few that saw this danger from the start the population as a whole is still unconcerned. Wa residents will realize its folly much later than ID & MT where they rely much more on out of state hunters footing the bill.

I don't need to believe in some grand conspiracy to prove these points. Gov has adopted the bait and switch on an almost wholesale level. It will continue to get worse as funds get tighter eliminating the ability keep deception hidden.

[pianoman9701]

It's amazing to me that any hunter could justify the actions of the USFWS in defrauding the nation's sportsmen out of so much money, an amount which equals about 1/3 of the annual funds generated by PR. Incredible.

[Special T]

Since it is abused and lookded at like greenies piggy bank, perhaps we could take away the tax. If its not being used for sportsmen who generated it, perhaps its better the Feds dont get it.

[bearpaw]

USFWS has broad authority on the use of PR funds as they administer them to the states.  They decide what the states can use the money for.  Furthermore, the PR act has a few very broad objectives...the first one is restoration of wild birds and mammals...wolf recovery and restoration clearly fits within this authority granted by Congress.  Your or Beers' use of the word "stolen" is ridiculous.  Its a federal excise tax managed by USFWS...again, they decide how and what projects states get to fund.  Its been that way forever. 

Here is a link to a timeline on wolf recovery issues from IDFG...it gives you a much better perspective of just how aware and involved Congress had to be for wolf reintroduction to happen. http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/wolves/?getPage=161

I opposed re-introduction.  However, if folks have some fascination that if Beers' allegations can be proven that somehow that would have any effect on wolf management or whether they would have been released in the lower 48 or whether it could possibly lead to removal or less protections...absolutely not at all.  Like it or not, and many of us do not, wolf re-introduction was and is legal.  Was there an accounting error in this multi-decade intensive and controversial effort?  I would be shocked if any federal agency could pull off a large project without some minor issue like this popping up.

I will repeat:

You are incorrect again, just admit that congress did not authorize the illegal funding of wolf introduction using stolen P-R funds. 

But, I see exactly how it is, as long as the end result suits your narrative it doesn't matter what injustices occurred to get there! You will only come back with some rhetoric that wolf introduction was going to happen one way or another so it doesn't matter what laws were broken, what dedicated P-R funding was stolen, or what honest employees were mistreated.

Your apathy of this affair are a testament to why certain agencies and leaders can get away with such illegal, unconstitutional, activities in this country. Yes, looking forward we are stuck with wolves and we need to concentrate on getting them delisted. That doesn't negate the corruption and illegal actions that have occurred in the process. 

[Special T]

Its important to remeber that we will not change the minds of those like Idahohnter. It IS important to show how there is NO common sense in how this issue is/was or likely will be handled if we stay our current course.

[bearpaw]

Its important to remeber that we will not change the minds of those like Idahohnter. It IS important to show how there is NO common sense in how this issue is/was or likely will be handled if we stay our current course.

I think the guy simply enjoys trying to create division to distract from the issue. I would just as soon concentrate on showing the public more info supporting the need for management but it's hard to stand by and let someone try to discredit everything anyone says. Thus the reason I dug up this info to substantiate the misappropriation of P-R funds.

[buckfvr]

I just wished you'd have left him nuked, Dale...............he makes me so sick and angry I hardly ever come around anymore..................afraid of what I may say.

[Special T]

I dont disagree, and I think showing the facts (that you supplied) is important. I also think its not benifical to engage people with Ostrage behavior beyond beating them with the facts and sound logic. It is much easier to try to derail that to supply facts.

In the ID time line it even states that the population was experimental and NOT Necessary! Which is kind of ironic that ID has spent so much time on this, when they could have nipped it inthe bud a long time ago.

Overall I must say that Im really disapointed in ID, and MT I thought the people that lived there had more sand. Id has a reputation for being feircly independent and telling the Feds to pound sand... WY was never in my mind as a great state that embraced local control, freedom, and property rights.

[Special T]

I just wished you'd have left him nuked, Dale...............he makes me so sick and angry I hardly ever come around anymore..................afraid of what I may say.

Having him and MJ around are actually good for the debate. You dont want to sing to the Choir all the time, and We need willing punching bags!