collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.  (Read 32461 times)

Offline whacker1

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 5816
  • Location: Spokane
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2014, 03:39:14 PM »
One absolute way to increase odds for the OIL tags, go back to when you had to purchase the tags first to put in.  Most people wouldn't shell out the money to apply, in my opinion.

I would agree
other suggested narrowing the number of choices would help, which I would agree with.

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 14540
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2014, 03:43:48 PM »
Seems as though wdfw is in a short term game of pacifying hunters with focus on their form of harvest, as in our monies........they want our money and dont want to fix things or right wrongs to earn it.......... :twocents:
They're probably too uncertain (pessimistic maybe?) about the long term.  Predators and greenies, kind of look at the future of steelhead fishing as an example--the lawsuit that stopped hatchery plants in PS region. 

Offline Curly

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 20921
  • Location: Thurston County
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2014, 08:11:54 AM »
"For example, 75% of the any moose tags went to applications with 10 or more points. If highest point holders is defined as anyone with 10 or more points, then giving 25% to them changes nothing"

If it's true that this changes nothing, then I am fine with that "change".   :tup:
When I pointed out the origninal 10pt cutoff and the stats Bob posted...that is when Dave Ware said they are re-evaluating the cutoff "point".  I think they realized 10+ pts already get the majority of the tags...Dave was clear that they want to set the limit where it makes an appreciable difference to draw odds.  To me, this means that you basically have to set it so that the 25% of tags are given to the max point holders (or something close).

If we look at "any moose" tags as an example...there are 1504 people who had 15+ points in 2013.  There are 82 any moose permits.  If we reserved 25% of them for 15+ point holders (21 permits) it would take 72 years for all of the 15+ point holders to get a tag under this new system designed to appease the high point holders.  If we set the cutoff at 19 points, then the 12 applicants with those 19 or more points would be guaranteed a tag the following year.  I don't believe it is appropriate that high point holders should be entitled to tags...WDFW says they get a lot of feedback about hunters with high point totals wanting improved draw odds...BS...all levels of point holders want improved draw odds!  If WDFW implements this, it will only result in substantial point creep and more complaints about absurdly low draw odds.  Like all ponzi schemes...a few in at the base level could stand to do quite well though.

If WDFW's objective is to improve draw odds the easiest thing they could do is find ways to reduce applicants.  I personally beleive we could come up with revenue neutral options and still improve draw odds.  I'm starting to think maybe there are a few upcoming WDFW retirees who have not drawn their moose/sheep/quality elk etc tags yet...time to make a few changes so they have something to do in retirement   :dunno: :chuckle:
How come Dave Ware is still involved in things like the draw system?  Shouldn't he be in his new wolf position?

His category system is idiotic and the tweaks he's talking about is just making it even worse.
May I always be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

><((((º>` ><((((º>. ><((((º>.¸><((((º>

Offline CarbonHunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1151
  • Location: Carbonado
  • Groups: RMEF, WSB
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2014, 08:29:49 AM »
Idahohuntr- was there any talk about giving hunters the option of returning unwanted permits?  This idea was brought up at the Tacoma town hall meeting last fall and a lot of the people attending liked the idea of having the option. Just curious if the idea got squashed already.

As for the idea of giving the last 25% of the permits available to people who have been financially supporting the game department for the last 10-20 years?  What's wrong with that?  I support it even though it doesn't do much.

For sum reason we always have these newbies entering the hunting sport with this sense of entitlement that they should get the best tags within a few years of entering the draw. I feel the best tags should go to the people who are patient and keep putting in year after year.

Most people who put in for the OIL tags only put in for a few years and they give up. They will still have the chance of drawing the first 75% of the tags and I feel that is good enough.

As for hunter recruitment?  The more hunters you see in washington- the less Opportunity for the rest of us. The state is clear that they feel there is pretty of wildlife and we already have twice as many hunters as we have elk.   

I agree that the best way to fix this is to simply limit the choices or do away with the categories. Before the days of the categories we had to choose if we wanted a easy draw (antlerless) or hold out for something better (quality). You couldn't choose both but the whiners (those who were holding out but still wanted an antlerless tag without losing there points) convinced the state to give us the category system. And the state won't pass on revenue or an easy fix and now here we sit about 5 years later trying to apply more band aids.

One thing  is for sure though: Everytime the state applies a band aid- hunters get more to complain about.

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 21741
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA, Hunter Education
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2014, 09:00:15 AM »
Any changes made mid-stream to an already screwed-up, convoluted permit draw system will do nothing but possibly appease a very small number of individuals while at the same time aggravating the vast majority of other applicants. That will drive more hunters away.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it is broke, don’t screw it up even worse with some cockamamie scheme.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 32891
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #80 on: December 10, 2014, 10:06:23 AM »
Any changes made mid-stream to an already screwed-up, convoluted permit draw system will do nothing but possibly appease a very small number of individuals while at the same time aggravating the vast majority of other applicants. That will drive more hunters away.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it is broke, don’t screw it up even worse with some cockamamie scheme.

 Bingo! :tup:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 32891
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #81 on: December 10, 2014, 10:09:54 AM »
 Idahohunter, was there any talk about reducing the number of quality deer tags in the Methow?

 
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 39181
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #82 on: December 10, 2014, 10:27:03 AM »

Any changes made mid-stream to an already screwed-up, convoluted permit draw system will do nothing but possibly appease a very small number of individuals while at the same time aggravating the vast majority of other applicants. That will drive more hunters away.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it is broke, don’t screw it up even worse with some cockamamie scheme.

 Bingo! :tup:

Agree 100%!

Offline npaull

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 1087
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #83 on: December 10, 2014, 10:30:28 AM »
Quote
kind of look at the future of steelhead fishing as an example--the lawsuit that stopped hatchery plants in PS region

Not to thread hijack, but you're confused about this - the lawsuit against hatchery steelhead was driven largely by people who want MORE steelhead - people like my brother, who is a steelhead fishing guide! The data is very clear that the hatcheries are hurting wild steelhead and driving down numbers, not helping them.

Offline idahohuntr

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3602
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2014, 10:39:07 AM »
No discussion on returning tags or tag reductions for the methow.

On the tag return, are you asking about if you draw something like a cow tag and a quality bull tag you would like to return the cow tag and have your points restored?  If so, it seems like that was mentioned but for draw odds reasons didn't get much support?

Methow deer, recent fires, extra doe tags etc., makes me think Methow deer status would be a good agenda item for the spring meeting.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline BULLBLASTER

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 8103
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2014, 11:04:19 AM »
I would be 100% against letting people return permits and having their points restored. Glad its not getting much attention.

Offline Little Dave

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Onalaska
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2014, 11:09:15 AM »
Seems as though wdfw is in a short term game of pacifying hunters with focus on their form of harvest, as in our monies........they want our money and dont want to fix things or right wrongs to earn it.......... :twocents:
They're probably too uncertain (pessimistic maybe?) about the long term.  Predators and greenies, kind of look at the future of steelhead fishing as an example--the lawsuit that stopped hatchery plants in PS region.

Quote from: npaull
Not to thread hijack, but you're confused about this - the lawsuit against hatchery steelhead was driven largely by people who want MORE steelhead - people like my brother, who is a steelhead fishing guide! The data is very clear that the hatcheries are hurting wild steelhead and driving down numbers, not helping them.

The matter of hatcheries hurting wild steelhead is debatable.  At a very minimum, hatcheries produce fish that generate revenue to support wild fish recovery expenses.  Toxic Puget Sound, lost habitat, and offshore fishing operations kill fish.  The idea that hatcheries can be removed without cleaning up Puget Sound, improving habitat, and negotiating harvest with the tribes, Canada, Japan, and Alaska is an unbelievable fairy tale.  The dams and the DFW see a way to cut costs and will cherry pick studies to use as "best science" to support budget goals.  Guides can be misguided.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 11:28:14 AM by Little Dave »

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 14540
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2014, 11:23:51 AM »
My example was more for how WDFW can't really rely on anything long term with this state's processes.  Similar to bans from initiatives.  I would guess that WDFW has in their long term plans to manage wolves, but do you think it will happen when they want?  If at all?  I would guess they are in for some major, long legal battles on that front.

Offline CarbonHunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1151
  • Location: Carbonado
  • Groups: RMEF, WSB
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2014, 11:34:02 AM »
No discussion on returning tags or tag reductions for the methow.

On the tag return, are you asking about if you draw something like a cow tag and a quality bull tag you would like to return the cow tag and have your points restored?  If so, it seems like that was mentioned but for draw odds reasons didn't get much support?

Methow deer, recent fires, extra doe tags etc., makes me think Methow deer status would be a good agenda item for the spring meeting.

Yep that's what I was talking about.

What did you mean by "for draw odds didn't get much support."

Does that mean they don't think it would increase odds of drawing or do they think that restoring someone's points and giving the tag to someone else would hurt other peoples chances of drawing in the future?

Offline idahohuntr

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3602
Re: Game Mgmt. Council Meeting Notes - 2015-17 season proposals, baiting etc.
« Reply #89 on: December 10, 2014, 11:43:49 AM »
That it would decrease everyone's draw odds.  No risk in applying for multiple categories anymore.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

DR Brush Mower won't crank by Rob
[Today at 08:05:20 AM]


10 kokes by 206
[Today at 07:51:31 AM]


Hoof Rot by fowl smacker
[Today at 06:28:53 AM]


MA-10 Coho by metlhead
[Today at 06:02:06 AM]


Ever win the WDFW Big Game Raffle? by addicted1
[Yesterday at 10:56:29 PM]


Honda BF15A Outboard Problems by Sandberm
[Yesterday at 08:18:08 PM]


Idaho General Season Going to Draw for Nonresidents by JDArms1240
[Yesterday at 08:16:36 PM]


Eastern WA-WT hunting from tree stands?? by addicted1
[Yesterday at 06:47:44 PM]


A question for any FFL holders on here by ryan2202
[Yesterday at 05:01:26 PM]


Bow mount trolling motors by BigGoonTuna
[Yesterday at 01:29:55 PM]


I’m on a blacktail mission by addicted1
[Yesterday at 12:10:11 PM]


where is everyone? by nwwanderer
[Yesterday at 06:01:04 AM]


Wolf documentary PBS by Skyvalhunter
[Yesterday at 05:58:56 AM]


Stuffed Pork Chop by EnglishSetter
[June 07, 2025, 11:12:59 PM]


Another great day in the turkey woods. by Remington Outdoors
[June 07, 2025, 09:43:57 PM]


Buck age by kentrek
[June 07, 2025, 08:56:47 PM]


Oregon special tag info by Judespapa
[June 07, 2025, 08:37:07 PM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal