The 210 Accubond LR in my 06'!?!

[Hornseeker]

Ok, I've been shooting the 165/168 pills for about 20 years now... the last 15 being the Barnes TSXs....  I have had NO issues with killing anything I hit... but yesterday I was dinking around looking at bullets and ballistics... and I see this 210 accubond that has a 730 BC  and I think... dang... that'll negate any benefit the 168 might have in trajectory... and it'll hit HARD... SD will be better... 316 vs 248 for the little one... plugging in what I'd expect for muzzle velocities... at 500 yards the 168 has about 7 inches less drop than the big 210... and at 1000.... the 210 is only 13 inches down... but carries 1800 lbs of energy vs 1500...

Most of my shooting is from 50-150 yards... NO difference in hold for me on big game...

Any really good reason NOT to go with the 210!?!?

[BULLBLASTER]

I think nosler was very optimistic with their bc claim on those bullets 
what velocity were you figuring?

[Curly]

If you do most shooting from 50 - 150 then there probably is not a reason to use the 210 LR.  I heard that there have been issues at closer ranges with the LR AB to stay together.

[bobcat]

If you're shots are 50 to 150 yards, and an occasional opportunity out to 400 or even 500, I think you'd be better off with the Barnes. They'll penetrate much better, recoil will be less, etc.

But you could load up some Noslers just for fun, and if the accuracy is there, use them anytime you expect to get long shots, especially if it's deer sized game or smaller.

[kentrek]

Maybe if the 210's are slow enough it will perform perfect at the close range compared to the ultra mags

I say go for it

Loading em up an shooting another masher bull would be a nice test 

[headshot5]

Double check your twist rate to make sure they will stabilize. 

[bobcat]

Another thing to check in regards to the ballistics is the wind drift. That's probably going to be your best reason to switch to the higher BC bullet. Again, that won't matter if you only shoot to 150 yards, but at 400 it could be a significant difference.

[WoodlandShooter]

Double check your twist rate to make sure they will stabilize.

^^^this^^^

also, I think the actual BC is closer to 0.630

[BULLBLASTER]

A few days ago shootersproshop had 210 lrab on their seconds list for pretty cheap. Check it out. They should stabilize in a 10 twist

[Hornseeker]

I have NO idea what twist I have?? Its an Abolt!?!?

2550-2575 was what i was thinking... backing down a bit from the claimed velocities on Noslers site with a 24" barrel. Mine is 22"....

[coachcw]

look at the retained energy at 400 yards my bet is you will find the 168s have more than the 210 lrab. you most likely will find a much better balance in a lighter bullet . the accubond is a fine bullet and I prefer then to a copper bullet as far as hitting power as well the throphy bonded would be a fine choice in the 06 as well.

[bobcat]

Twist in that a bolt will be 1 in 10, as that's the standard twist for the 30/06. And as for energy- it's just a number that in my mind is irrelevant. If the velocity is sufficient for the bullet to expand and to penetrate all the way through the animal, that's all that matters.

[Hornseeker]

Coach, with the ballistics provided by nosler and hornady... at 200 the 168 is just ahead in energy, at 300 the 210 passes him likes he's standing still and at 400 the 210 has 2091 while the 168 has 1820. Out at say 600 the 210 is at 1697 while the 168 is only at 1323.

So what velocities do I need to get decent mushrooming out of either of these bullets. I've shot and recovered quite a few of my TSX's out of animals from like 50-125 yards... nothing further out... and the barnes is always adequately mushroomed... not always fully... but enough in my opinion.

What velocity does a 30 cal barnes need to mushroom good? Accubond?

Another interesting point, is that at 1000, the 210 still has 1100 lbs... while the 168 has dropped to 673!
But... i am not a 1000 yard shooter... so thats fairly irrelevant!

So bottom line... 210 AB or 168 TSX... at ranges from 0-400... which bullet will be more effective... with deep penetration at tough angles?
Thanks for the twist info Bobcat... Im not big on energy either... but just for comparing ballistics and can be useful...

[Hornseeker]

Lets say I set my 300 Win up for long range work... that 210 AB oughta be the chit for that though right?

[bobcat]

If you really don't shoot further than 150, I'd stick to the Barnes, especially for elk. What do you hunt with this rifle? (I'm not sure you've said)

I would definitely look at using a higher BC bullet if/when you expect long shots. You might also look at the 180 Accubonds. The BC won't be quite as high as the 210 but out to 400 yards or so, it won't be enough to make much difference.

Also, the 210 is a really long bullet so I'm not sure you'll get enough powder in the case for decent velocity.

[BULLBLASTER]

Lets say I set my 300 Win up for long range work... that 210 AB oughta be the chit for that though right?

persinally i would go with bergers for a dedicated long range gun. The 215 has been phenominal for me!
For an 06 i would run 180s. Pretty good trade off in velocity amd bullet weight. Maybe 190 lrab if you wanted to stick to that. I shoot 180 partitions and 180 interlocks in my 06.

[Hornseeker]

Deer/elk... bear/wolf... whatever... hehehe

So, out to 400, will the barnes still have enough velocity or is it going to pencil through? Looks like I should have between 2000-2200 FPS at 400...

[bobcat]

Lets say I set my 300 Win up for long range work... that 210 AB oughta be the chit for that though right?

Yes, I think it would be a great choice in a 300 mag. Not sure Id trust it for going through elk shoulders though.

[bobcat]

Deer/elk... bear/wolf... whatever... hehehe

So, out to 400, will the barnes still have enough velocity or is it going to pencil through? Looks like I should have between 2000-2200 FPS at 400...

I've always wanted to try a 150 grain Barnes in my 30/06, loaded as fast as possible. The faster the better with Barnes bullets.

[Curly]

Here is what Barnes says:

The LRX (Long Range X) bullets are flying out of here faster than we can make them. These are an optimized version of the Tipped TSX bullet and they have unique qualities that may make them better for you under a few circumstances.

An improved nose and boattail to be even more streamlined (higher BC value). This will again add to the distance you can shoot and still achieve bullet expansion. On top of that, we have lowered the minimum impact velocity to achieve expansion from 2000 fps (for most of the Tipped TSX calibers and weights) to 1600 fps for all of the LRX bullets. Again this will add about another 200 yds to your maximum effective range. In some larger cartridges this will allow the bullets to expand out to distances of 1000 yds or more.

I'd read that to mean that with tipped TSX or your standard TSX bullets, you'd want velocities at 2,000 or more.  You can get away with velocity all the way down to 1600 if you use the LRX bullet.

If I were shooting a 30-06 in conditions you're describing, I'd seriously look at the 165 gr Accubond, 180 gr Accubond or 150 gr E-tip.

[Hornseeker]

Bobcat, my buddy is loading the TSX 150 in his 300 short... same reason you speak of... they dont fall apart... so they perform like a bigger bullet.

Funny, cause I was just looking at ballistics for the 130 grain Barnes!! Thinking the SAME thing.. . I mean... elk die ALL THE TIME with 100-130 grain pills from stuff like 243-270! Why not a 130 at 3250 fps...?

Or I could just keep shooting the 168's that have kilt everythign I've shot at for the last 15 years....

Nah... i need to experiment a little!

[Hornseeker]

I just realized I went from figuring I had to have the 210 in there... now and Im down to the 130... heck... how about picking up some sabots and loading the 55 grain barnes in at 4100 fps....

[BULLBLASTER]

With a 200 yard zero you would drop 18 inches at 400 yards and have terminal velocity of 2150 using a 130 barnes at 3250 mv. Your on the edge of its capabilities. Light low bc bullets going fast arent great for longer range.
And its still a barnes... 

[BULLBLASTER]

The 130 barnes at 400 yards would have 1300 fpe.
While a 180 accubond at 2750 mv would drop 21 inches at 400 yards with same terminal velocity you woild have over 2000 fpe. Huge difference imo. No way i would choose a 130 barnes over a 180 accubomb for very close to the same trajectory. If you go further the accubond is actually flatter shooting.

[Hornseeker]

Yeah, the LR benfit of the AB is sweet... it still blows my mind how a bigger, heavier bullet can retain velocity at longer ranges better than a lighter bullet... dont get me wrong, I understand the physics, I just find it fascinating!

[bobcat]

The 130 Barnes is too light, IMO. But the 150 should do much better.  Check the ballistics for it. I wonder how it compares with the 180 grain Accubond out to 400 yards?

[bobcat]

I just realized I went from figuring I had to have the 210 in there... now and Im down to the 130... heck... how about picking up some sabots and loading the 55 grain barnes in at 4100 fps....

   Funny how that happens isn't it?

[BULLBLASTER]

I mispoke on the energy of 180... oops.
Screenshots are 180 accubond at 2750 and 150 ttsx at 2900. The 150 is 21.5 inch drop amd 180 is 22 inch drop.
with minor trajectory differnces i would still go heavier.

[BULLBLASTER]

This all shows that for ranges most people hunt at bullet choice for trajectory isnt all that big a deal.  pick a quality bullet in a reasonable weight and hunt!

[coachcw]

So I ran some numbers on the 168 accubonds  vrs the 210 lrabs . I don't see a real advantage inside of 400 yards . you gain a small amount of energy with the 210 but have better trajectory with the 168's . you may find the gun groups the 168s better . in the Winnie where you can load up for better velocity the 210s will shine.  my history with the copper bullets like the tsx is they have a sweet spot like a partiin . at hyper velocities they don't expand well but in the 1600-2400 range they work fine . I really had great performance with the 140 vlds in my 6.5 from 3000 fps to 2600 . this season they take 800 fps to expand so you can load accuracy all the way. the thing with them is you want to hit the pocket or you have a mess . I'd conceder the ssts in 180 aswell I have seen good performance from that bullet at 3100 fps.

[sticky]

Why buck fifteen years of solid results?  The proof is in the pudding (of vitals).