HB 1676: Understanding the effects of predation on wild ungulate populations

[JimmyHoffa]

Do the research.  It is not about the individual and not about the money.  It is about hunting and the experience. 
Is it hunting or the killing that generate the dollars?  Could be both?  I am not sure.  If it is about the killing our hunting heritage is doomed.  But, I am a hunter not a killer. 
For me it is the hunting!  I choose to elk hunt areas with low healthy populations but, have big mature bulls.  I am happy with tag soup knowing that I could have harvested but, chose to try for something else.  Start to fully understand wildlife population dynamics and you will see the light.  Look at the highest potential for mature bulls and you will find they are low population units.  These units have healthy predator populations.  It is the inefficient predator that is controlled. 
Big bulls are smart bulls that escaped all the predators.

Beware the ballot box!

Here's some research you should read...

http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolves_and_hunting.html

Agree Wallace.  It is the most efficient hunter that is actually being controlled.  Wolves are another way of controlling hunting.

[stevemiller]

Politicians make poor scientists and wildlife managers.  This bill does nothing to help manage wildlife and wastes resources and staff time.  It is very poorly written and will not result in anything useful or beneficial for predator management or deer and elk management.   Maybe it serves as a way to bring about more public dialogue about balancing predator populations and ungulate populations, which is great, as long as it does not pass and waste more money.

Another no voter, surprise surprise. 

While politicians might make poor scientists the same could be said of pro-wolf supporters as well as wdfw who are more aligned with pro-wolf groups than an independent state agency should be

Wolf stuff will always be poilitcal of course...but when politicians go beyond debating and legislating public policy and start writing bills directing how research is to be conducted... 

Unless its the pro wolf side doing it right. Come on everytime a good idea comes up that both sides should easily agree with people like ypu still complain,Goes to show there is no winning with anyone that has these blinders on.

[idahohuntr]

Politicians make poor scientists and wildlife managers.  This bill does nothing to help manage wildlife and wastes resources and staff time.  It is very poorly written and will not result in anything useful or beneficial for predator management or deer and elk management.   Maybe it serves as a way to bring about more public dialogue about balancing predator populations and ungulate populations, which is great, as long as it does not pass and waste more money.

Another no voter, surprise surprise. 

While politicians might make poor scientists the same could be said of pro-wolf supporters as well as wdfw who are more aligned with pro-wolf groups than an independent state agency should be

Wolf stuff will always be poilitcal of course...but when politicians go beyond debating and legislating public policy and start writing bills directing how research is to be conducted... 

Unless its the pro wolf side doing it right. Come on everytime a good idea comes up that both sides should easily agree with people like ypu still complain,Goes to show there is no winning with anyone that has these blinders on.

What problem will this bill solve?  How will it improve wildlife management in Washington State?  And is that benefit worth the cost?

Thats how I view this bill...this is not a wolf issue.  This is strictly about using our limited resources effectively...no different than when I get riled up watching a bunch of F&W officers spend a bunch of time trying to make a non-wildlife related arrest in Tacoma.

[KFhunter]

I'm not sure this is the answer either,  WDFW or anyone else could cherry pick areas to study and put out whatever report they want...then have it peer reviewed and heavily disputed then what?

WDFW say's they're fine
Peer review say's they aren't


what then?  I don't see anything forcing WDFW to favor the peer report over that of their own or to even compromise.

[stevemiller]

Politicians make poor scientists and wildlife managers.  This bill does nothing to help manage wildlife and wastes resources and staff time.  It is very poorly written and will not result in anything useful or beneficial for predator management or deer and elk management.   Maybe it serves as a way to bring about more public dialogue about balancing predator populations and ungulate populations, which is great, as long as it does not pass and waste more money.

Another no voter, surprise surprise. 

While politicians might make poor scientists the same could be said of pro-wolf supporters as well as wdfw who are more aligned with pro-wolf groups than an independent state agency should be

Wolf stuff will always be poilitcal of course...but when politicians go beyond debating and legislating public policy and start writing bills directing how research is to be conducted... 

Unless its the pro wolf side doing it right. Come on everytime a good idea comes up that both sides should easily agree with people like ypu still complain,Goes to show there is no winning with anyone that has these blinders on.

What problem will this bill solve?  How will it improve wildlife management in Washington State?  And is that benefit worth the cost?

Thats how I view this bill...this is not a wolf issue.  This is strictly about using our limited resources effectively...no different than when I get riled up watching a bunch of F&W officers spend a bunch of time trying to make a non-wildlife related arrest in Tacoma.

Did putting them here to begin with show the cost effectiveness you were looking for?Like I said as long as its the pro side doing any of this crap its worth every penny right?What money does the wplf populations bring to the table?None,What money does the ungulates in WA. bring to the table tons.So dont try to push your benefit worth cost crap on the people that know differently.

[stevemiller]

I'd support the bill but would also like to see verbiage that calls for analysis of how the predator impacts on ungulate populations may affect hunter tag distribution and harvest goals going forward.

And if the state were smart they would use that info to project( best possible) revenue losses. Not only from tags and licenses' but try and factor in economics from things like gas, Pittman Robertson act taxes collected(look at increase in sales starting in August -November), lodging .....etc

this is exactly how i feel. 

[idahohuntr]

Did putting them here to begin with show the cost effectiveness you were looking for?
Wolves were not re-introduced into WA state so I have no idea what you are talking about.  I vehemently opposed the re-introduction of wolves into Idaho if that is your question. 
Like I said as long as its the pro side doing any of this crap its worth every penny right?
Nope.  I realize you want to desperately make this some pro v anti wolf issue.  Its not.  This bill doesn't do a dang thing for hunters yet it wastes license dollars and wdfw staff time that could be better spent elsewhere.  If you have a piece of legislation that some greenie group is pushing that is also wasting sportsmens dollars I would oppose that as well.  I judge a bill on its merits...not by who wrote it, votes for it, or any political bs it might achieve.   
What money does the wplf populations bring to the table?None,What money does the ungulates in WA. bring to the table tons.So dont try to push your benefit worth cost crap on the people that know differently.  Despite your amusing efforts this is not an ungulate/wolf debate.  I don't support bills or politicians who want to waste sportsmen resources...that money we all generate and spend as a result of those ungulates....its not unlimited and this report is a complete waste that will solve nothing and do nothing for sportsmen.  And if there are other groups of legislators pushing different bills that waste sportsmen resources those should also be opposed...post 'em up so folks are aware.   
[/quote]
If these legislators want to do something useful for sportsmen why don't they pass a bill to increase funding of hunter access programs?  Why don't they pass a bill de-listing wolves from State ESA? Why don't they pass a bill allowing wolves to be hunted in GMU's where they are clearly recovered?

Why is it they want to pass a bill directing (in a ridiculous and meaningless manner) a report that will do nothing, solve nothing, address nothing for sportsmen in WA state?

[bearpaw]

WDFW stood at the public meeting in Colville and stated that they would have to study herd numbers to determine if wolf predation was affecting herd numbers before any season could be considered as stated in the wolf plan regarding ungulate predation by wolves.

This legislation will expedite that process! It may not matter what happens to game in the NE to some of you guys, but to other it does matter. If wolves are impacting our herds and need managed for that reason those studies will have to take place according to WDFW.

[stevemiller]

IDAHOHUNTR: Wolves were reentroduced into Wa. state as soon as you accept that we can have a dialogue .

Your right its not even a hunting issue at all.You want them here for no reason other than to see if you people can get your way,Like a 13 year old kid.Just like all the other changes people like you do.

Dont keep saying that you dont support the people that waste sportsman dollars and at the same time support the wasting of sportsman dollars as a pro wolf advocate.If the state spends our money bringing wolves in at a cost to us,and then pay the cattleman for lost cattle and other damages,Then lose said wolves to diff. regions or even diff. states.

[bobcat]

Steve, you seem to be very confused. First of all, wolves were never "reentroduced" into Washington state. If you continue to say that, and think that, nobody is going to take anything that you say serious. Second, Idahohunter is not a wolf advocate and he doesn't want wolves here, at least if I'm understanding his posts correctly, and I'm pretty sure I am. If you're going to pick on somebody, you really need to get your facts straight.

[haus]

Such a scientific study won't directly help nor protect hunter interests, but it will be nice to have around as filler on the coffee table.

[jasnt]

WDFW stood at the public meeting in Colville and stated that they would have to study herd numbers to determine if wolf predation was affecting herd numbers before any season could be considered as stated in the wolf plan regarding ungulate predation by wolves.

This legislation will expedite that process! It may not matter what happens to game in the NE to some of you guys, but to other it does matter. If wolves are impacting our herds and need managed for that reason those studies will have to take place according to WDFW.

  they have already said this study must take place before wolf management can begin. This is why I support this bill. A better bill would be to rewrite the wolf plan. But that's dream land it seems. Let's scratch this requirement off the list and move on to the next hurdle.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I'd bet Sitka_blacktail and Aspenbud are the No's 

How much? You're on.

[idahohuntr]

WDFW stood at the public meeting in Colville and stated that they would have to study herd numbers to determine if wolf predation was affecting herd numbers before any season could be considered as stated in the wolf plan regarding ungulate predation by wolves.

This legislation will expedite that process! It may not matter what happens to game in the NE to some of you guys, but to other it does matter. If wolves are impacting our herds and need managed for that reason those studies will have to take place according to WDFW.

This bill does not achieve the requirements set out in the current wolf plan.  It will not expedite anything.  In fact, it probably does the opposite...instead of having bio's spend more time collecting population data they will be conducting silly, uncontrolled comparisons that will reveal nothing about predation effects on ungulates.

IDAHOHUNTR: Wolves were reentroduced into Wa. state as soon as you accept that we can have a dialogue .

Correct, no use in us having any further dialogue on this topic.  I would like to agree with you but no sense in both of us being wrong.

Steve, you seem to be very confused. First of all, wolves were never "reentroduced" into Washington state. If you continue to say that, and think that, nobody is going to take anything that you say serious. Second, Idahohunter is not a wolf advocate and he doesn't want wolves here, at least if I'm understanding his posts correctly, and I'm pretty sure I am. If you're going to pick on somebody, you really need to get your facts straight.

   

[stevemiller]

Now I see what you are saying.because wdfw says they did not bring grey wolves in from lower michigan they didnt.Gotcha.