Big Magnums - Marketing genius?

[Pat/Rick]

I've shot mags.,don't care if people use 'em.I just never really saw the need. Like h2o said,its all about shot placement. Recoil doesn't bother me,I'll pull a trigger on anything that can be shoulder fired.(90mm recoiless rifle is the largest so far).Airborne!

[jager]

I'm sure all have their place and everyone has a preference.
It's been said a million times...It's all about shot placement.
I've shot both whitetails and bighorn with a 270 wsm. whitetails and axis with a 7mag, seemed a little much for the whities, nothing was over a 150 yards though. whitetails and cougar with a 30-30. Multiple one shot kills on deer, pronghorn and bears with a 6mm....100 gr. bullets.... Actually.... one of the longest shots I have taken on a big game animal was a couple years ago with the 6mm. A 263 yd shot on a bear. One shot. Clean kill.
All of theses calibers have done their job.
I'm kind of torn....bringing the 7mag and the 270 wsm to Montana this year for elk/ mulies...probably going to use the larger of the two. I bowhunt for elk so have never had the opportunity to use a rifle on them.
The mags aren't necessary for clean kills, in my opinion. I guess it's no different than any other product....something for everyone.
If you can shoot it well and you are comfortable with it....go for it.

[Skinnyman]

For 99% of everyone out there, you dont need a magnum. I have one for larger animals such as elk (338 Win Mag). But your shoulder pays for the larger cartridge!!! I am getting used to it, but it makes my 30-06 feel like a .243 in comparison.  Shoot what you feel most somfortable with, and can shoot accuratly. If you keep flintching because you are waiting for the impressive recoil of a magnum, you aren't going to be a very good shot so whats the point in using one if you cant even hit where you were aiming.

The only reason I can see using a magnum cartridge is for larger animals with thicker skin and heavier bone. Or if you are hunting at long ranges, which most people dont practice at enough to be proficient at, which then that leads ethical question (not the forum for that). 

As a guy we like to have the biggest and baddest thing out there and be able to brag about, so I think that is where some of the magnums are getting momentum.

[Ironhead]

I shoot a couple different magnums for different hunting styles and they work well for me, why would any one care what I shoot? I don't judge what you shoot.

[furbearer365]

I think as a rule of thumb most hunters don't care to get to fancy and will stick to the basics.  Then there are the ones who love to shoot but do it at a range and don't hunt so they like a good mix of basics and the occasional odd ball.  Then there are the collecters that love guns but don't shoot that often if at all but absolutely love each and every caliber there is and wants to own one.

[Bean Counter]

My first purchase to my hunting gear was obviously my rifle. A used, scratched, rusty ol' .30-06 Sprinfield.  In the first few years I kicked around the idea of going magnum, 7mm, .300, etc. when I realized that I wasn't getting many (any, actually) shots because I wasn't a good hunter, I admitted the problem hasn't been with my gun.  A few years of experience and target shooting has made me a respectable hunter and put much venison in the freezer. 

I am convinced that my -06 is capable of taking deer, elk, sheep, black bears, even moose. If I were going for some African game or grizzly bears, then magnums might be up for discussion.

Having purchased my first bow and taking the plunge into archery, taking shots at 300+ yards anymore just doesn't seem like a challenge or sporting. I hope I don't offend anyone with that statement, just to say that if I can't get within 200-300 yards with my 'aught six, maybe the animal deserves to get away. 

If I ever buy more guns for hunting, it'll be a lighter caliber for coyotes to save on ammo costs, and maybe someday a muzzle loader.

Good chat.

 

[ACCUBOND]

What about when you see that buck of a lifetime at 450. Thants when you need to be ready.

[cascademountainhunter]

ya i agree that you dont always need a bigger round like a magnum but i have some and like them. 

[Wanttohuntmore]

I am on the same page as Curly.  When I bought my 7stw, it was before decent priced laser rangefinders.  I was sitting with my dad one day in 97 with his new 7stw, and my 5 yr old 3006, and we had some targets set up at a bank about 500 yards off.  We started shooting, purposefully just aiming at the target with no holdover.  He was dropping about 15 inches less than my 06.  I was sold at that point, knowing that it is hard to judge distances to deer and bear that we hunt regularly.  So I went out and bought the same gun.  It shoots better than my 06, doesn't kick much more (in fact, with my hotter loads in my 06 I can't tell a difference). 

Now with my hot loads in the 06, and with my rangefinder, I see no difference, other than the 06 carries more ammo, chambers and extracts much better, and ammo is readily available if I run out of reloads on a trip (like that will happen).  I find that cheap rem corelokt works in it as well.  With the 7stw, it's a reloading game, with premium bullets.

For 80% of the time I don't think there's any difference between them, but that 20% of the time might be when a big buck stands up at an estimated 400 yards, with no time for me to get the fogged up rangefinder on him to work.

[Buckrub]

Interesting posts on this subject,

Energy is overrated? Energy is everything, why have a cal. law if energy were overrated.

Energy is weight x speed.
Without going into a long drawn out math class a shooter owes it to the game he hunts to know bullet limitations. A magnum may be overrated for most applications but better to be ethical than a shooter wounding an animal taking a shot outside a bullets capability.
I would rather see a new shooter with a magnum. Smaller caliber guns are better left to the shooters who get closer and are proficient with their gun.

I own many guns and each one has a application and a limit.

[ICEMAN]

I would rather see a new shooter with the right gun. IMHO, a magnum can surely work to cause a new shooter to have issues....also they tend to be a bit heavy for many gunners?

I agree with this:

..... each one has a application and a limit.

[Pathfinder101]

I would rather see a new shooter with the right gun. IMHO, a magnum can surely work to cause a new shooter to have issues....also they tend to be a bit heavy for many gunners?

I agree with this:

..... each one has a application and a limit.

Agreed.  I have a young lady that works for me who is about 5' tall and 120 lbs.  Her ex-husband bought "her" a .300 Win Mag, then outfitted it with an HS Precision stock.  The thing weighs almost 9 lbs.  She kept it after the divorce (probably not exactly what he had in mind when he bought it I am guessing ) and insists that she is going to hunt with it.  She brought it to me last month and asked if I could "sight it in for her".  She won't admit she can't shoot it.  One of these days I am going to load up the whole office and head out to the gun club.  We'll put her behind my .270 and see if she doesn't change her mind...

[Tony 270WSM]

...but this 7-08 has the energy to take a deer at 600 yards with half the recoil, (and elk at 350)

What load are you shooting??? Elk to 350? Don't know if reloads are a hell of a lot hotter than factory, but factory is only (roughly) 1500lbs @ 300 yards (and of course 350 would drop it more). Most suggest 1800-2000+ for elk.

[Tony 270WSM]

This whole topic seems a little funny to me. Overall, since when are Americans about need? Rarely. We're about wants and desires. Big trucks with V8s. Medium sized cars with V8s. Motorcycles that produce 180hp and only weigh 430 pounds with a full tank of gas. Remington Ultra Magnums... they all play on desires, not needs.

Most of the time a standard 30-06 will do more than we ever need it to. Occasionally it may be undergunned, but that would be in an extreme situation. The 270 is wonderful and I had one for a few years. Never felt undergunned, at all, for the deer I took with it. Didn't go for elk back then, but would have been happy to use it for that as well.

My short mag is great. Plenty of power, accurate, recoil isn't bad... I have no complaints about it. Should the need arise, it can certainly take elk to 400 yards, maybe even 500 if I were hunting around 5000 feet or higher. However, my average shot is under 200 yards so I certainly don't need it, but it is nice to have if I need the extra speed and power.

Where I think people go wrong, especially newbies, is going for the ultra style mags from the start. Too much gun, too soon, think all that power will kill. Well like many have said before, all that power means jack if you can't shoot it accurately. It was exactly like motorcycles. New kids to riding looked at all that power and thought the 1000cc bikes were what they wanted. Only they couldn't ride them, were scared to twist that throttle open, and rightly so. Knew more than a few who crashed from being unable to handle that power and seeing that "little" 600 pull away from them (me). I moved up to a liter bike a couple years later and damn was it fun. But at the time I had the experience to handle it. Same thing applies to shooting. Need the experience to handle those big calibers or else you have no business using them. But in the right hands, they can do great things and do have their place.

[JoshT]

Interesting posts on this subject,

Energy is overrated? Energy is everything, why have a cal. law if energy were overrated.

Energy is weight x speed.
Without going into a long drawn out math class a shooter owes it to the game he hunts to know bullet limitations. A magnum may be overrated for most applications but better to be ethical than a shooter wounding an animal taking a shot outside a bullets capability.
I would rather see a new shooter with a magnum. Smaller caliber guns are better left to the shooters who get closer and are proficient with their gun.

I own many guns and each one has a application and a limit.

Ummm... apparently you missed that long drawn out physics lesson!

Energy (Kenetic) = 1/2 mass x (velocity squared)
Momentum = mass x velocity
The most important evaluation of a cartridge's ability to kill intended game... is the ratio between Energy and Momentum.

Energy is important... but momentum is important too. If your round has a high energy to momentum ratio... like the 22-250... it will be prone to poor penetration... but will do a lot of damage to stuff the bullet doesn't actually touch (this is your "hydrostatic shock"). If you have a round with low energy to momemtum ratio... like a .44 Rem Mag... then it will typically penetrate will... but do little proximal damage to surrounding tissue (or "pencil through").

The classic example is the .22-250 vs. the .44 Mag... they have almost identical "energy" at the muzzle... but the .44 has much higher momentum due to the use of a projectile (mass) that's about 5x that of the 50 grainer typically fired in a .22-250. One will go end-long through an elk... the other is questionable on deer.

I own a big magnum (.300 RUM)... and the only thing that it does better than an '06... is shoot very high BC bullets with excellent velocity. The .300 RUM shooting 210 Bergers or something like that will pack as much energy (and more momentum) at 500 yards... than the old '06 can deliver at 100. For the guys who shoot everything inside 300 yards... you're absolutely correct... a 7/08 or naught'6 will work just fine. But, for the guys who like to stretch it out to 500-800-1000 yards... there is no replacement for displacement.