Big Magnums - Marketing genius?

[ICEMAN]

[..... there is no replacement for displacement.

 

[addicted]

- Most blokes only have rifles in 30.06 so your at the top at ten and then where do you go?

- Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

- Put it up to eleven

- Eleven. Exactly. One louder

(all rights reserved by "this is spinal shot")

[addicted]

I think I'll have to wait for someone with a few more years under there belt to get that one.

[huntnphool]

there is no replacement for displacement.

 

 Spinal Tap Addicted?

[Alchase]

Interesting posts on this subject,

Energy is overrated? Energy is everything, why have a cal. law if energy were overrated.

Energy is weight x speed.
Without going into a long drawn out math class a shooter owes it to the game he hunts to know bullet limitations. A magnum may be overrated for most applications but better to be ethical than a shooter wounding an animal taking a shot outside a bullets capability.
I would rather see a new shooter with a magnum. Smaller caliber guns are better left to the shooters who get closer and are proficient with their gun.

I own many guns and each one has a application and a limit.

Ummm... apparently you missed that long drawn out physics lesson!

Energy (Kenetic) = 1/2 mass x (velocity squared)
Momentum = mass x velocity
The most important evaluation of a cartridge's ability to kill intended game... is the ratio between Energy and Momentum.

Energy is important... but momentum is important too. If your round has a high energy to momentum ratio... like the 22-250... it will be prone to poor penetration... but will do a lot of damage to stuff the bullet doesn't actually touch (this is your "hydrostatic shock"). If you have a round with low energy to momemtum ratio... like a .44 Rem Mag... then it will typically penetrate will... but do little proximal damage to surrounding tissue (or "pencil through").

The classic example is the .22-250 vs. the .44 Mag... they have almost identical "energy" at the muzzle... but the .44 has much higher momentum due to the use of a projectile (mass) that's about 5x that of the 50 grainer typically fired in a .22-250. One will go end-long through an elk... the other is questionable on deer.

I own a big magnum (.300 RUM)... and the only thing that it does better than an '06... is shoot very high BC bullets with excellent velocity. The .300 RUM shooting 210 Bergers or something like that will pack as much energy (and more momentum) at 500 yards... than the old '06 can deliver at 100. For the guys who shoot everything inside 300 yards... you're absolutely correct... a 7/08 or naught'6 will work just fine. But, for the guys who like to stretch it out to 500-800-1000 yards... there is no replacement for displacement.

Very well said, science trumps opinion every time.

[Buckrub]

Interesting posts on this subject,

Energy is overrated? Energy is everything, why have a cal. law if energy were overrated.

Energy is weight x speed.
Without going into a long drawn out math class a shooter owes it to the game he hunts to know bullet limitations. A magnum may be overrated for most applications but better to be ethical than a shooter wounding an animal taking a shot outside a bullets capability.
I would rather see a new shooter with a magnum. Smaller caliber guns are better left to the shooters who get closer and are proficient with their gun.

I own many guns and each one has a application and a limit.

Ummm... apparently you missed that long drawn out physics lesson!

Energy (Kenetic) = 1/2 mass x (velocity squared)
Momentum = mass x velocity
The most important evaluation of a cartridge's ability to kill intended game... is the ratio between Energy and Momentum.

Energy is important... but momentum is important too. If your round has a high energy to momentum ratio... like the 22-250... it will be prone to poor penetration... but will do a lot of damage to stuff the bullet doesn't actually touch (this is your "hydrostatic shock"). If you have a round with low energy to momemtum ratio... like a .44 Rem Mag... then it will typically penetrate will... but do little proximal damage to surrounding tissue (or "pencil through").

The classic example is the .22-250 vs. the .44 Mag... they have almost identical "energy" at the muzzle... but the .44 has much higher momentum due to the use of a projectile (mass) that's about 5x that of the 50 grainer typically fired in a .22-250. One will go end-long through an elk... the other is questionable on deer.

I own a big magnum (.300 RUM)... and the only thing that it does better than an '06... is shoot very high BC bullets with excellent velocity. The .300 RUM shooting 210 Bergers or something like that will pack as much energy (and more momentum) at 500 yards... than the old '06 can deliver at 100. For the guys who shoot everything inside 300 yards... you're absolutely correct... a 7/08 or naught'6 will work just fine. But, for the guys who like to stretch it out to 500-800-1000 yards... there is no replacement for displacement.

I didn't miss the physics lesson.
The average shooter doesn't need to know more than speed x weight = energy.  Ballistic Coefficient plays a key role in speed.

The .06 @ 100 yds with 180 gn. Nossler Partition muzzle velocity@ 2700 fps. = 2508 Ft. Pounds Energy.

Your 300 UM @ 500 yds with 200 gn Nosler Partition muzzle Velocity @ 3025 FPS = 1916 Ft. Pounds Energy.

A 30 Cal is a 30 Cal. wether it is an UMag or .06, BC is the same for either one. The only difference would be speed which equates to energy and trajectory ( bullet drop ).

How does your Magnum 30 Cal. shoot a higher BC than an .06?

[Buckrub]

Very good software program for basic factory ammo.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/remington_shoot_ballistics_software.asp


Here is the actual calculator for energy

Energy Calculator
This tool will help you estimate the energy of your favorite cartridge. If you are unsure of which bullet weight and/or velocity to submit, use the information from our on-line ballistics tables above.
Example: The muzzle energy of a 300 Remington Ultra Mag 180gr Core-Lokt Ultra bullet propelled at 3250 feet per second is determined using the follow formula:
M x V2 ÷ 450400 = foot pounds energy.

Step 1: Multiply M (M = bullet weight in grains) times V2 (V2 = the square of bullet velocity in feet per second): 180 x 3250 x 3250 = 1,901,250,000

Step 2: Divide the product of step 1 by 450400: 1,901,250,000 ÷ 450400 = 4221 foot pounds of energy.

[257 Wby Mag]

I think I'm gonna buy a 585 Nyati for bucks and bulls....

[JoshT]

A 30 Cal is a 30 Cal. wether it is an UMag or .06, BC is the same for either one. The only difference would be speed which equates to energy and trajectory ( bullet drop ).

How does your Magnum 30 Cal. shoot a higher BC than an .06?

A .30 cal is a .30 cal... but velocity is also velocity... the additional 300-400 fps that a RUM will get you... is worth it to those that can use it... but it don't mean squat to those that still haven't figured out what a turret is for on a rifle scope.

You can shoot the same bullet out of the ole'06... but no where near the velocity. A 210 Berger at 3100 is a whole different animal than one at 2700. Sorry I missed the velocity on the '06 by 100fps... so, it's the same at 400 yards not 500. Meaning... the 300 RUM gives you 300 yards more range than the naught'6... if you're skilled enough to take advantage of it. For those that aren't... shoot a smaller round.

[JoshT]

I think I'm gonna buy a 585 Nyati for bucks and bulls....

No you wouldn't... it's not a Weatherby.

[GoldTip]

- Most blokes only have rifles in 30.06 so your at the top at ten and then where do you go?

- Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

- Put it up to eleven

- Eleven. Exactly. One louder

(all rights reserved by "this is spinal shot")

Nice use of a Spinal Tap quote, not sure I could have figured out to work it in in this conversation, but Kudo's to you!

[257 Wby Mag]

I'll find me a 378 or 460, have the bolt face opened up, put a new snout on it, be a hellava antelope gun too...

[257 Wby Mag]

I think I'm gonna buy a 585 Nyati for bucks and bulls....

No you wouldn't... it's not a Weatherby.

 You coming down tomorrow? Give me a jingle, it's beer 30'.

[JoshT]

Roy is gonna be pissed when he finds out you're cheating on him.

I did call you... answer you damn phone.

[257 Wby Mag]

I'm on the patio for the rest of the the day, done mowing and weed eating. Give me a hoot. Later