ATF

[longrangehunter338]

With this last proposed ammo ban, anyone think the ATF has a purpose?

[netcoyote]

Purpose? Yea,  they are just carrying out orders from their boss, BHO. It's not a mystery.

[GrainfedMuley]

With this last proposed ammo ban, anyone think the ATF has a purpose?

The ATF was originally set up to collect taxes from booze, smokes, and guns. My question is. when and who gave the ATF law enforcement powers? Eric Holder should be brought up on murder charges for allowing guns to be bought and sent over the Mexican border that caused the death of a US Border Patrol Agent. He knew those guns where going south and even before the death of the US Border Patrol Agent. The ATF allowed it, knowingly.
    Now as far as the banning of "green tip" .223 ammo is really mute. There has always been a ban on what they used to call "cop killer" ammo. Which meant. ALL pistol caliber ammo that was armor piecing has been banned from private ownership for 45 years. Now back to today................in the mid 90's the local ATF office here in Seattle went to the gun manufacturer called SGW with a challenge to make a pistol form of the AR-15 rifle. Hence the pistol was called the OA-95. Once that was done and they could show that an AR-15 could be a pistol, then at that time, technically "green tip" .223 ammo fell into that definition of armor piercing pistol ammo. This is nothing new. It is just getting media attention because the pres said something about it.
   SGW is still in buisness today. They are located in north Olympia on the Nisqually delta and are known today as "Olympic Arms". This is the sole reason why I will not do ANY buisness with Olympic Arms. They are in bed with the ATF.
    Now that some manufacturers are making AK47 pistols, all of the steel core 7.62x39 ammo is technically banned also. In the 90's the Chinese flooded the US market with steel core ammo. For those of us that have had several hundred rounds of both kinds of ammo for 20 plus years better keep in the ammo box unless it is a life or death deal to defend yourself.
   I hope this kinda helps to explain things that are going on today in the media.

[bigtex]

With this last proposed ammo ban, anyone think the ATF has a purpose?

The ATF was originally set up to collect taxes from booze, smokes, and guns. My question is. when and who gave the ATF law enforcement powers?

They've always had law enforcement powers.

The origins of the ATF dates back to the prohibition days. Think about it, do you think that the guys who were going after bootleggers shouldn't have had law enforcement powers?

Firearms enforcement was added by Congress in 1942.

Explosives enforcement was added by Congress in 1970. However they didn't become the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives until 2002.

Out of the four areas that the agency oversees, nearly all investigations involve firearms or explosives. Very little enforcement of alcohol laws, with some enforcement of tobacco laws.

[bigtex]

Eric Holder should be brought up on murder charges for allowing guns to be bought and sent over the Mexican border that caused the death of a US Border Patrol Agent. He knew those guns where going south and even before the death of the US Border Patrol Agent. The ATF allowed it, knowingly.

The ATF operation began under the Bush Administration. Not that it makes a difference.

[Bean Counter]

I see absolutely zero reason why alcohol, tobacco, or firearms require inherent federal regulation. Absolute B.S.  They should be dismantled. Some token arrests and cases here and there against Hells Angels and what not just don't cut it for me.

[Bean Counter]

Eric Holder should be brought up on murder charges for allowing guns to be bought and sent over the Mexican border that caused the death of a US Border Patrol Agent. He knew those guns where going south and even before the death of the US Border Patrol Agent. The ATF allowed it, knowingly.

The ATF operation began under the Bush Administration. Not that it makes a difference.

Kind of disingenuous to relate Operation Wide Receiver with F&F. WR was of reasonable scope-- 1/10th or less the size of F&F. Under WR, the Feds at least attempted to intercept the weapons at the border. And they had the courtesy to inform Mexico. None of that can be said about F&F and Constitution hating zealots who conceived it.

[Wenatcheejay]

ATF was and is born out of Progressive taxation ploys of the early 20th Century.  As an organization they have as much use as progressives themselves. 

[BigGoonTuna]

For those of us that have had several hundred rounds of both kinds of ammo for 20 plus years better keep in the ammo box unless it is a life or death deal to defend yourself.

the ammo is not illegal to own or use, just can't be sold commercially now.

as far as armor piercing goes, just about anything that we hunt with will far outperform any "green tip" ammo, that's where things get a little sketchy...

[Bofire]

  Interesting artical, definition of Amour Piercing is here too, 
  http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/09/the-obama-administrations-m855-ammo-ban-is-blatantly-lawless/

Carl

[GrainfedMuley]

 
[/quote]

as far as armor piercing goes, just about anything that we hunt with will far outperform any "green tip" ammo, that's where things get a little sketchy...
[/quote]





I would disagree. I have personally shot the evil "green tip" ammo completely through a 1/4" steel plate. My soft tip, lead nose, hollow point hunting rounds will not do that. They may make a dent in the steel plate but they will not penetrate that same plate.

[Bofire]

I really doubt the bullet must penetrate to break ribs and stop a heart.
Carl

[huntinguy]

as far as armor piercing goes, just about anything that we hunt with will far outperform any "green tip" ammo, that's where things get a little sketchy...
[/quote]

you obviously don't shoot a big enough gun. 300gr rn out of my 338 won't even know the plate was there.





I would disagree. I have personally shot the evil "green tip" ammo completely through a 1/4" steel plate. My soft tip, lead nose, hollow point hunting rounds will not do that. They may make a dent in the steel plate but they will not penetrate that same plate.
[/quote]

[Angry Perch]

 Sounds like the ATF caved to pressure and shelved this this morning?

[Windwalker]

Yup-
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,171656.0.html

ATF Makes a “Tactical Retreat” in the Face of Overwhelming Opposition to its Ammo Ban

“If anyone needed any more proof that [the ATF] has become a politicized repository of liberal anti-gun hacks, your proposed effort to effectively ban AR-15's by illegally banning AR-15 ammunition has cleared up any doubt.” -- GOA Comments that were officially submitted to ATF

In a stunning new development, the ATF has announced today that it will “formally delay” the implementation of its ammo ban, in the face of 80,000 comments which were overwhelmingly negative.

[h2ofowlr]

Time to get rid of the ATF and turn suppressors into an across the counter hearing protection devise.

[NW-GSP]

I'm not sure why green tip ammo would be considered cop killer rounds. Almost any .223 or 556 round will penetrate the ballistic vests that cops wear. It was one of the things I was taught while going through Leo training.

[ndcasla]

Just received this information

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150310/nra-forces-obama-to-wave-white-flag-on-proposed-ammo-ban-for-now

http://www.nssfblog.com/atf-to-not-move-forward-with-5-56-m855-ammo-ban-at-this-time/

[GrainfedMuley]

you obviously don't shoot a big enough gun. 300gr rn out of my 338 won't even know the plate was there.

You are right. I do not shoot that big of a gun because there is no elephants in this state. .308 does all the killin I need to do and I never try to kill an animal no more than 300 yards out. I never take a 1/4 mile shot no matter how big the gun is........

[NW-GSP]

as far as armor piercing goes, just about anything that we hunt with will far outperform any "green tip" ammo, that's where things get a little sketchy...

you obviously don't shoot a big enough gun. 300gr rn out of my 338 won't even know the plate was there.





I would disagree. I have personally shot the evil "green tip" ammo completely through a 1/4" steel plate. My soft tip, lead nose, hollow point hunting rounds will not do that. They may make a dent in the steel plate but they will not penetrate that same plate.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I have punched through 1/4 steel with my 300 win mag. It punched right through and didn't even bend or dimple the surrounding steel.

[timberfaller]

Don't be  it far from over!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/12/atf-raises-new-concerns-about-ar-15-ammo/?intcmp=latestnews

Political agenda's don't die,   they just keep idiots employed!!!

[huntinguy]

you obviously don't shoot a big enough gun. 300gr rn out of my 338 won't even know the plate was there.

You are right. I do not shoot that big of a gun because there is no elephants in this state. .308 does all the killin I need to do and I never try to kill an animal no more than 300 yards out. I never take a 1/4 mile shot no matter how big the gun is........

My hunting load is 210gr. I have taken deer at 20 feet and elk at 250 yards. You would be surprised at how little meat damage the big bullet does. Far Far less than a 270, 243 or a 308 all of which I have taken animals with.

[grundy53]

you obviously don't shoot a big enough gun. 300gr rn out of my 338 won't even know the plate was there.

You are right. I do not shoot that big of a gun because there is no elephants in this state. .308 does all the killin I need to do and I never try to kill an animal no more than 300 yards out. I never take a 1/4 mile shot no matter how big the gun is........

My hunting load is 210gr. I have taken deer at 20 feet and elk at 250 yards. You would be surprised at how little meat damage the big bullet does. Far Far less than a 270, 243 or a 308 all of which I have taken animals with.