what would you have done different?

[deerhunter_98520]

here is a situation that happened to me this last sept archery hunt on the wetside....ive played this over and over in my head and not sure where i went wrong, if i did this wrong or it just wasnt meant to be....if you were in this situation what would you have done different?

its early sept and 2 evenings before we had a couple bulls bugling in this same transition area from bedding to feeding area...it was a gathering area every evening for alot of elk......its all reprod and very thick.....they would move up from the bedding area and congregate in this valley...from what i can guess there was 2 herd bulls in the area....one would come right into the middle of this reprod with this cows and the other i only heard once....the 2 days before this all happened i had a couple bulls bugling back and forth with me for a good half hour to an hour and then what i think was the second herd bull let out the deepest nastiest bugle i have ever heard and all of the other bulls shut up and would not bugle or make a sound after that...it was pretty awsome to experience this....he came up to the edge of the timber and ripped off this bugle and never came any closer...it was like he was the boss of the valley and came over and told everyone to shut up and that was it for that evening...fast forward to 2 days later and it was about 4 hrs before sundown and i slowly sneak into this area and get settled in where i have a few 40yd shooting lanes and my buddy is just another 80 yds away and setup...i start cow calling and do this off and on for about 2 hours with no answers....i decided to try some excited estruss calls to get a bull to answer and wow did that work....not even 10 seconds after i did my first set of calls i hear a freight train coming through the reprod...he stops about 150 yds away and i can hear him making noise but cant figure out what hes doing....about about 20 min of this i realize he is tearing up trees and i get down out of my setup which is a big rootwad to get some height  and see into the reprod for better shooting...i move up to my buddy and tell him that bull is tearing up trees and were moving in on him....by this time he has moved off into the reprod farther and i told my buddy to stay close im going to charge him...im going to run 40 yds and tear up some trees and challenge him...i will be under 60 yds when we stop so be ready.....we run up and and i start thrashing on a tree and rip off a bugle at him and about 60-70 yds i can hear him demolishing a tree...this went back and forth for probably close to 45 min...i bet he tore up 12 trees....this stuff was quite the jungle to get through and shooting lanes were scarce at this point and light was fading...i told my buddy to climb up ontop of this brush pile so he could have  a better advantage point and im moving in closer....i start sneaking in closer and get in between my buddy and the bull and i signal to him to bugle and he lets out a bugle and before the other bull could do anything i did some soft cow calls hoping to get the bull to come in and snatch up a cow that wandered to far away and he came right in to 15yds but i had no shot and could not see him....i could hear him breathing he was so close but he would not step out of the brush and show himself and thats where that ended....we had a standoff till it was getting too dark to see and i had to work my way out without spooking him...he continued to tear up trees while i  made my way out....not sure what i could have done different or if i could have done anything different but it was one of the funnest times i have had in the elk woods.

[Tbar]

Popping grunt and a stomp? 

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Not sure that you could of.  In the thick nasty stuff it is very hard to make a shot happen.  Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.  Its tough to make them show themselves sometimes.  They are generally right where they want to be.  Maybe if you had more time in the day, he would have moved around more and presented a shot.  That's hunting though.

[tonymiller7]

Sounds like you did just about everything you could, sometimes you just never get a shot.

[deerhunter_98520]

Popping grunt and a stomp? 

nope never heard any...the wind was in our favor the whole time also....i did everything i knew to do thanks to elknut1...his calling cds got me in the postion i was in..thanks paul...very very helpful  i just always second guess what ive done if it doesnt work out and try to learn for the next time what i could have done different if the situation presents itself again

[Tbar]

I can tell you I have had your scenario play out many times.  So many times that I called Paul very frustrated a few years ago.  I would have them stop in the most inopportune places behind the thickest brush and it would end there.  Now I'm far from an expert but I'll share my experience. Aggression is rewarded, I would have first tried a popping grunt to get him to move(our two).  I then would have ripped a loud but short bugle followed by almost a whine (I'm trying to imitate sounds I've heard elk make in this situation). Paul could better explain what I heard and what I'm doing,  but both of those have worked for me.   

[Tbar]

Another thing is a simple stomp (by the hunter) if you are pinned will invoke a reaction by the elk.  This is also a behavior I've witnessed and tried with success.  I do quite a bit of observation and see the stomp for many reactions, I even saw it yesterday by a bull to control another bull(he herded a smaller bull that was straying a little too far). Again I'm no expert just sharing experience.

[4fletch]

Pm sent

[buglebrush]

You never know, but sometimes the thing to do is one of you leave.  Make a lot of noise, and lots of whiny cow calls with some grunts and pants.  Make it sound like a bull is driving a cow away against her will.  I've had that work.

[coachcw]

maybe try to flank his down wind , sometimes if you bugle threw his bugle he will confront. my guess is he didn't want to leave his cows.

[pianoman9701]

Make even more noise, maybe use a decoy or two. A lot can be said for stomping around and pretending you're a moving elk.

[HornHoarder]

Sounds like you played it well. If I was fairly sure he wasn't coming in, sneek in on him. When he is thrashing trees, is when I'd make my move. You can tell where he is at by the noise he is making, and his attention is focused on killing the tree. Keep an eye out for the cows though.

[kentrek]

couple things in your story pop out to me

1...your buddy crawled  up onto a vantage point...that's great if he's the shooter but if he's calling than being down on the ground and able to flank left/right to swing the bull into the shooter is pretty important in my world

2...if your 15 yards and have a hard time shooting that means it's pretty dang thick...you never mentioned  how far back your caller was but in very thick stuff the caller needs to be just out of site from the bull even if that's only 10 yards from the shooter...as the caller I like to watch my shooter...i can see him move,draw,shoot, let down and so on...and I will call accordingly..also setting up this close to each other you won't waste time sitting there wondering  what's going on and can move in accordingly if he hangs up

3.....you called....while it sounds like it's exactly  what the bull wanted,as he came in, he prolly was wondering where the cow was....if your caller isn't doing what ya want and you feel you have to call move forward at least 15 yards...but always try an have a solid plan with your caller...working together is key 

Just some things that I noticed that I'd have done differently, but hard telling if it would have done the trick. ..sounds like an awesome  experience  !

[deerhunter_98520]

That's kinda a catch 22 with the guys I'm huntin with....I'm the only one that knows half way how to call...sure they can blow on a call....I told him what to do and when to do it....he didn't call but once or twice from the brush pile up high...I told him to get up there so he could have some shooting lanes...there was 2 40yd lanes from where he was and if the bull would have worked his way around up wind which I thought there was a good chance of he would of had a shot...I had a lot of options covered between the 2 of us...but I always like others opinions on what they would have done different....he was also within eyesight of me too being up so high for part of the time anyways until I got behind some brush....I also had a Montana decoy but I left it where I was originally setup with 60yd shooting lanes in a few different directions but he would not come out of the thick stuff and show himself....he also did not have any cows with him...I believe he was just a satalite but I could care less as long as he was legal....also this bull didn't bugle...he just came charging in and tore up trees after I did some whining estruss calls

[coachcw]

When I call by myself I always move after my call to not get pinned.I find often bulls like to pose .. he was in his comfort zone