4 pt. restriction 117/121

[SkookumHntr]

 

[Wanttohuntmore]

The harvest numbers do not tell the whole story.  The drop in harvest was due to two things, smaller herd size due to the huge winter kill and the APR going into effect.  The harvest "stats" do not reflect a quality unit and healthy herd.  I hunt those units and neighboring units and noticed a much quicker rebound in the APR units as far as deer seen, in all sizes, which to me at least, brings a more quality experience.  It'll be a cluster there for a few years then will be barren.   Congrats to you for having a one size fits all management philosophy.   On a side note, I was skunked in there this year, 2nd time in my life since 83....  And I still had a BLAST and was looking forward to the next few years....   Now,,, not so much....

[jasnt]

[Colville]

Facts are really stubborn and absent again from the APR side of the debate.  Here's the facts straight from the Harvest reports.  Modern firearm bucks harvested over time:

UNIT   YEAR   07     08     09     10     11     12     13    AVG 07-10   2013 from Avg    From worst year

101              561   545   604   553   393   463   549      565                -3%                       +40%
105              299   307   332   306   254   252   256      283                -5.5%                      0%
108              282   267   254   296   278   308   317      274                +12%                    +25%
111              360   320   299   340   347   400   415      329                +26%                    +38%
113              297   273   230   300   260   320   352      275                +28%                    +53%
117             1029  878   743   783   417   452   614      858                -29%                     -17%
121             1425 1342  1100 1109 540   790   974     1244               -22%                     -11%

What happened in 2011 again?  The kill stats have been averaged for the 4 years preceding APR and I've used the best kill year we have #'s for to compare to the norm (this makes 117/121 look better than an average of 2011 to 2013 would, IE the best case scenario).  The results speak for themselves.  The other units are either barely beneath the average or passed it up.  2 units produce drastically less than the past. If 2014 improved dramatically over 2013 we have something to discuss.  If not, APR delivers a pile fewer bucks per year (500ish averaged) than any buck.

Note:  117/121 last column compared 2013 kills only to the worst year up to 2010 before APR.  117/121 can't even produce up to the worst years pre APR, by a long ways. 

If 117/121 had improved over the 07 to 10 average by 10%, in line with the other units, they would have produced 943/1368 bucks. Left Any buck, these units produce 723 more kills in 2013.  You can chose to argue that they would have behaved like the worst units not the average improvement over that time. That's fine, they under-produced by 500 then.

[PA BEN]

The gloves are off in 121 and 117, any deer for archery and muzzleloader.

[curlewkiller]

Wasn't there a point where it was any whitetail buck was to help the mule deer herd from the more aggressive more territorial whitetail.  To slow the whitetails movement west.  I may be mistaken.

I feed about 25 mule deer and 30 whitetail every winter and spring two times a day.. The mule deer are the aggressive ones.. Even yearling mulies chase mature whitetail bucks away from the food. Have never seen a whitetail show aggression towards a mulie without getting put in it's place.

   whitetail aren't aggressive, they are just better at proliferating than are mule deer.

in other words...smarter...

[buglebrush]

Now that it is changed I am just too disappointed to get into this.  However, I believe I know this area's deer as well as anyone, and I definitely side with BearPaw on this.  Done.   

[vandeman17]

The gloves are off in 121 and 117, any deer for archery and muzzleloader.

This disappoints me. Just when I was seeing improvement in numbers and quality on my cameras.... 

[PA BEN]

The gloves are off in 121 and 117, any deer for archery and muzzleloader.

This disappoints me. Just when I was seeing improvement in numbers and quality on my cameras.... 

What's really bad is the Game Dept. said the 4 point rule in the first place was to increase the deer numbers not just big bucks. So why open up more doe harvests. Does are the ones who increase the herd. 

[vandeman17]

The gloves are off in 121 and 117, any deer for archery and muzzleloader.

This disappoints me. Just when I was seeing improvement in numbers and quality on my cameras.... 

What's really bad is the Game Dept. said the 4 point rule in the first place was to increase the deer numbers not just big bucks. So why open up more doe harvests. Does are the ones who increase the herd.

100% agree. Lost on this one

[bearpaw]

When I get a chance I will reply again with some details, I'm too busy with turkey hunting at this time.

[AKBowman]

"Facts are really stubborn and absent again from the APR side of the debate."

Here's a fact guy...he personally spent time hunting the area and first hand saw more deer, small and large than he had seen in the past.  Same as many of the other posters on this subject. You keep asking for facts, debunking first hand observations and yet you regurgitate figures that we all know are completely subjective.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the APR except that it was introduced for a reason and it would have been nice to see it in place for at least 7 years to see long term effects. Don't you know 90% of all stats are 33% believable half the time. I take those stats that you so proudly posted for what they are and I take the hunters who posted first hand knowledge/experiences for what they are. Both are important.

[jasnt]

The gloves are off in 121 and 117, any deer for archery and muzzleloader.

This disappoints me. Just when I was seeing improvement in numbers and quality on my cameras.... 

What's really bad is the Game Dept. said the 4 point rule in the first place was to increase the deer numbers not just big bucks. So why open up more doe harvests. Does are the ones who increase the herd. 

maybe they just want us to get some deer before the wolves eat too many

[MTMule]

Wow.... The cry babies won. Go shoot your *censored*ing spike.

[rice201]

This is a change I wish would have been a 2pt or 3pt instead of any buck. I do like the youth season change, and would have been fine with that being a 'any buck' limit.
I've been bringing my son out to 121 for the past 3 years, and this will be his last youth season. He's been exited about getting his doe and filling the freezer while keeping watch for a legal buck. It's always been a fun and relaxing time going out to the fields and spending the day looking for 'his' deer. But now I wonder if this will change due to an increase of pressure.