4 pt. restriction 117/121

[mfswallace]

To rely on stats from wdfw to make your argument is   

[cryder]

THERE ARE NO DEER IN G. M. U. 121 !!! DONT GO THERE !!   

[PA BEN]

That's what we tell hunters from Spokane.

[lewy]

The APR was doing great things for the wt herd in the huckleberry. My family owns a big peice of ground and we were seeing it first hand. I wish the state would have left it that way. There is still plenty of opportunity for hunters, the rule just helps the yearling bucks get threw the gauntlet

[LeviD1]

If your family owns a large peace. You can still let those yearlings live. Just hold yourself to a 4 pnt minimum. We do that at my parents place and its only 40 acres but i have been noticing multiple of the same deer serviving year to year and getting bigger.

[bearpaw]

A while back I had tried to find this message I received back from a Pennsylvania Game Commission member, I just happened to stumble upon it and thought I would post it.



Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:38 AM
To: Bearpaw Outfitters
Subject: Re: 4pt rule

Dale,

PA implemented antler restriction in 2003. The goal was to get a  more balanced age-class of bucks.  Prior to AR Pa hunters killed 85% of all bucks before they reached 2 years old.  Remember, PA has one-million hunters in the field on the first day of deer season.

 In most of the state the AR rules required a minimum of 3-points on one side.   In western PA where the habitat was so good a 1-1/2 year old deer might carry a 6-8 point rack (we count both sides), so the AR rules were raised to a minimum 4-points on one side. 

We are now considering modifying the 4-point area to a 3-on top or 3-up rule, where the brow tine doesn't count.  We found that since 8-point racks are the common configuration for mature bucks, hunters were seeing these bucks during hunting season, but couldn't pull the trigger because it was so difficult to see a brow tine. 

Our records show that 88% of 8-points have brow tines.  So this change will only result in an additional 12% of bucks being removed from the age class distribution. We do not feel this will adversely affect the age-class distribution.

Obviously not all hunters like antler restrictions, but after a few years it reached a 68% approval rate.

I hope this helps.
-Commissioner R. Martone

[cryder]

Sorry I just don't see how shooting any buck is a good thing.

[Miles]

After the trial and demise of the APR restriction in these two units, how is the deer deer population doing?  Did the removal wipe out the buck population?

[Grizman]

All the bucks are gone.  Might as well stay home.  I'll let you know when they grow back!!!😂😂

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Another view of antler restrictions in Pennsylvania.......

The purpose there was to REDUCE the herd, which was wreaking havoc on the habitat, and balance out doe/buck ratios.  Besides antler restrictions, doe harvest was increased by a large amount.  Things to consider are hunter success rates and hunter interest. In 2000 hunters in Pennsylvania harvested over 500,000 deer. in 2016 they harvested just over 315,000. The number of hunting licenses sold in Pennsylvania has also declined significantly, over 10% since 2000.

In Washington, the 4 point rule was put into place after bad winters reduced the herds and doe hunting was reduced. This was an event where the herd could and did recover from on their own as seen by a similar recovery in neighboring units where no antler restrictions were put in place.

This story is from 2010 and is a fairly even handed look at how things were going then in Penn. Be sure to read the second page too.

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/land-management/huntingtactics_naw_0907_10/2/

Here's a look at the 2000/2001 and the 2001/2002 deer harvest stats.

http://www.biggamehunt.net/news/deer-harvest-results

And here are the 2015/2016 harvest stats.

http://www.whitetailhuntingnetwork.com/2016/03/28/pennsylvania-2015-2016-deer-harvest-report/

[Miles]

Interesting info sitka.

[tgomez]

Nice bucks everywhere in 121. Get black bear and deer tags, make it a combo hunt!

[MTMule]

Really disappointed a rule like this can be overturns so easily.

[MTMule]

The biggest argument I have heard against this is that some young deer are 8 points.

That seems like pretty lame argument. Wonder how many 1.5-2.5 year old deer have 4 points on one side. If it's not 100%, then are you not saving deer?

The 2nd argument was gene pool. Why would you kill all the older bucks.

Even sillier. Bucks get smarter as they get older, meaning the chances of you killing him are smaller. Secondly, how does that even make sense. With such a wide variety of hunters gene selection is mute. The same as deer at 1.5-2.5 years old being killed, gene selection is mute.

Then the newest argument. Wdfw stats?

What stats? The ones that list all the locals loving the new restrictions. The ones that list year in and out population. How bout the one that lists less people hunting it, making the number of bucks being killed lower. That didn't seem to get mentioned.


I feel like it's such a shame to do this experiment for an unserviceable amount of time, only to have thousands more hunters come in and take over 700 bucks 3 point or less in gmu 121. What a shame and disservice to conservation. Killing a buck is not your right.  It's a privelage. If no sacrifice is ever made, quality of hunts will continue to suffer.

Its just shocking to me the amount of people who want to kill a baby deer. Make no fuss about it. A deer 1.5 years old is a baby. Possibly the end of a blood line.

[jasnt]

The biggest argument I have heard against this is that some young deer are 8 points.

That seems like pretty lame argument. Wonder how many 1.5-2.5 year old deer have 4 points on one side. If it's not 100%, then are you not saving deer?

The 2nd argument was gene pool. Why would you kill all the older bucks.

Even sillier. Bucks get smarter as they get older, meaning the chances of you killing him are smaller. Secondly, how does that even make sense. With such a wide variety of hunters gene selection is mute. The same as deer at 1.5-2.5 years old being killed, gene selection is mute.

Then the newest argument. Wdfw stats?

What stats? The ones that list all the locals loving the new restrictions. The ones that list year in and out population. How bout the one that lists less people hunting it, making the number of bucks being killed lower. That didn't seem to get mentioned.


I feel like it's such a shame to do this experiment for an unserviceable amount of time, only to have thousands more hunters come in and take over 700 bucks 3 point or less in gmu 121. What a shame and disservice to conservation. Killing a buck is not your right.  It's a privelage. If no sacrifice is ever made, quality of hunts will continue to suffer.

Its just shocking to me the amount of people who want to kill a baby deer. Make no fuss about it. A deer 1.5 years old is a baby. Possibly the end of a blood line.

awe yes shame on anyone  with different views than yours 🙃