NEW GOAT UNIT Conflict Reduction

[kkc66]

 DOES ANY ONE HAVE INFO ON THIS UNIT? I do know that it is by the park where that guy got killed a few years back buy a billy but from the unit info your outside the park so my question is what are the chances of  getting a  billy and how hard of a hunt will it be? l have 18 points. is this a no brainer hunt?

6009 East Olympic Mtns A N/A 3 Sept. 15 - 25 NEW-----3 permits
6010 East Olympic Mtns B N/A 3 Sept. 26 - Oct. 6 NEW -- 3 permits

[cem3434]

It's a new hunt category, so you will have only one point going into the drawing just like everyone else. 

[bobcat]

Here's a thread about that hunt from last year:

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,155039.msg2053065.html#msg2053065

[kkc66]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,155039.msg2053065.html#msg2053065 IS NOT THE SAME UNIT

[cem3434]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,155039.msg2053065.html#msg2053065 IS NOT THE SAME UNIT

  My wife bought the app and only had one point for the unit when she applied even though she has like 10 points for the other goat category.  For the first time since they started the new point system, it looks like multiple people are going to draw a goat tag with only one point!   

WDFW will probably make another $25K plus in permit sales by breaking that out as another category. Maybe we will get lucky and they can put the excess money back into the general fund, so none of the additional permit fees are used to manage wildlife at all. 

[jackelope]

DOES ANY ONE HAVE INFO ON THIS UNIT? I do know that it is by the park where that guy got killed a few years back buy a billy but from the unit info your outside the park so my question is what are the chances of  getting a  billy and how hard of a hunt will it be? l have 18 points. is this a no brainer hunt?

6009 East Olympic Mtns A N/A 3 Sept. 15 - 25 NEW-----3 permits
6010 East Olympic Mtns B N/A 3 Sept. 26 - Oct. 6 NEW -- 3 permits

Odds are that nobody will have any experience hunting goats in this new unit.
Maybe hiking through or seeing goats I guess...but they're new units so there's not going to be anyone with hunting experience....
I don't know if any goat hunt in Washington would be what I call a no-brainer.

[Nature Boy]

I helped put one of the Mt. Washington tag holders on a goat last year.  Anyone planning to put in for the new conflict tags and expects to find a mature billy needs to be advised that this is steep, rugged country and there are no trails serving the high basins that hold goats.  Be prepared for Class 3 rock climbing and be in "mountain" shape.     

[JimmyHoffa]

They expanded the boundaries.  You don't need to be in super shape to get there now.  You can go in on stock if you wanted.  I've seen lots of goats around Buckhorn, Goat Lake, Charlia, etc.  Trail to Goat Lake is sucky, but if you go up the old quad trail not too bad but overgrown.  For Buckhorn can go up the Big Quilcene River or go from Tubal Cain Mine.  Those are long walks, but no climbing needed.  But TONS of hikers out walking dogs there.
Only guys I know that hunt goats there are tribal.

[Nature Boy]

Thanks I'll check out the new boundary.  I've been to some of the places you mention and have seen goats there but mostly nannies and kidds.  I'd expect if someone is after a trophy billy you'll still need to go steep and deep.  Depends on what your expectations are for the OIL opportunity.

[JimmyHoffa]

The new boundary is basically lake Cushman on the south to the Clallam Jefferson line on the north--(Mt Townsend/confluence of Royal Creek and Dungeness River).  Lots more turf.

[cem3434]

Thanks I'll check out the new boundary.  I've been to some of the places you mention and have seen goats there but mostly nannies and kidds.  I'd expect if someone is after a trophy billy you'll still need to go steep and deep.  Depends on what your expectations are for the OIL opportunity.

I dont think it's considered an OIL tag and they actually encourage the taking of any goat, including nannies. Since its a conflict resolution tag, I think successful hunters can apply again after drawing it. Read the regs because they changed a bunch of stuff. 

[fishngamereaper]

I must be reading it wrong. It looks like if you draw the conflict tag you are done. The regs say the once in a lifetime restriction  includes all Goat/- Goat Conflict tags....I wouldn't waste a OIL tag on a conflict tag. But I may be missing something.

[Bob33]

 

I must be reading it wrong. It looks like if you draw the conflict tag you are done. The regs say the once in a lifetime restriction  includes all Goat/- Goat Conflict tags....I wouldn't waste a OIL tag on a conflict tag. But I may be missing something.

Goat conflict tags are included in the "once in a lifetime" restriction. If you kill one on a conflict tag you are done.

[kkc66]

With the new expanded  boundaries can this hunt be packed in by horse or ATV?

[cem3434]

Bob is correct, if you kill a goat them you're done.

[X-Force]

I must be reading it wrong. It looks like if you draw the conflict tag you are done. The regs say the once in a lifetime restriction  includes all Goat/- Goat Conflict tags....I wouldn't waste a OIL tag on a conflict tag. But I may be missing something.

With 1000+ people applying for each permit waiting for and OIL will take 1000 lifetimes.

[kkc66]

I must be reading it wrong. It looks like if you draw the conflict tag you are done. The regs say the once in a lifetime restriction  includes all Goat/- Goat Conflict tags....I wouldn't waste a OIL tag on a conflict tag. But I may be missing something.

Goat conflict tags are included in the "once in a lifetime" restriction. If you kill one on a conflict tag you are done.

[kkc66]

Bob is correct, if you kill a goat them you're done.

[fishngamereaper]

I must be reading it wrong. It looks like if you draw the conflict tag you are done. The regs say the once in a lifetime restriction  includes all Goat/- Goat Conflict tags....I wouldn't waste a OIL tag on a conflict tag. But I may be missing something.

With 1000+ people applying for each permit waiting for and OIL will take 1000 lifetimes.

I've been applying for 18 years and have really good knowledge of the herds from Goat Rocks to Chelan. Although it is an OIL tag, if I do draw I want it to be for an area I enjoy going to and an area Ive been trying to draw for nearly half my life. I would not want to settle on a new area just because its an option. I've spent some time in the Olympics and the quality just doesn't seem to be there. Im not fond of the early seasons, no time for the goats to hair up, and Im not fond of the crowds.

[Katmai Guy]

What Nature Boy said!  I drew the Mt.WA A tag last year and never got near a goat during the season.  Where the Bio said the majority of the big billies were, I could never find a way to access.  I could see them from Mt. Ellinor, just couldn't get there.  Hunted Mt. Ellinor and tried to get into the bowl and onto the ridge behind but couldn't make that happen either.  Talked to the Bio after the hunt and they were amazed that I hadn't seen any goats on Ellinor, they expected there to be 10 or 12 goats in the vicinity, due to the "goat conflicts" hikers were having in the past. Oh well.

[JimmyHoffa]

With the new expanded  boundaries can this hunt be packed in by horse or ATV?

Horse yes, ATV no.  ATV can't go in the wilderness where the goats are.  You could ask around at the different Backcountry Horsemen Groups to see who they recommend if you don't have your own stock.  They do all kinds of rides into the northern part of the unit.  Pretty easy ride for horses to get to Marmot Pass.  I only know of the ones that go into the Buckhorn WA, not the lower areas.

[cem3434]

I must be reading it wrong. It looks like if you draw the conflict tag you are done. The regs say the once in a lifetime restriction  includes all Goat/- Goat Conflict tags....I wouldn't waste a OIL tag on a conflict tag. But I may be missing something.

With 1000+ people applying for each permit waiting for and OIL will take 1000 lifetimes.

I've been applying for 18 years and have really good knowledge of the herds from Goat Rocks to Chelan. Although it is an OIL tag, if I do draw I want it to be for an area I enjoy going to and an area Ive been trying to draw for nearly half my life. I would not want to settle on a new area just because its an option. I've spent some time in the Olympics and the quality just doesn't seem to be there. Im not fond of the early seasons, no time for the goats to hair up, and Im not fond of the crowds.

With it being a new hunt catergory "Goat Conflict", I don't understand what you would be out even if you did draw.  You could hunt the area and if you didn't see that OIL billy, then you eat your tag and lose your points in that category.  You still keep your points and could potentially draw Goat Rocks or another tag under the "Goat" category in the future.  Am I missing something?

[Katmai Guy]

Nope, it's a good scenario in my mind also.  You could be picky.

[Katmai Guy]

The bad part is we won't be accomplishing what the hunt was created for and that is reduction of the population in that area.  If the wdfw doesn't get the population down, the park service will cull all the goats in the park, which will eliminate the need for this hunt.  Kind of a double edged sword.

[fishngamereaper]

I must be reading it wrong. It looks like if you draw the conflict tag you are done. The regs say the once in a lifetime restriction  includes all Goat/- Goat Conflict tags....I wouldn't waste a OIL tag on a conflict tag. But I may be missing something.

With 1000+ people applying for each permit waiting for and OIL will take 1000 lifetimes.

I've been applying for 18 years and have really good knowledge of the herds from Goat Rocks to Chelan. Although it is an OIL tag, if I do draw I want it to be for an area I enjoy going to and an area Ive been trying to draw for nearly half my life. I would not want to settle on a new area just because its an option. I've spent some time in the Olympics and the quality just doesn't seem to be there. Im not fond of the early seasons, no time for the goats to hair up, and Im not fond of the crowds.

With it being a new hunt catergory "Goat Conflict", I don't understand what you would be out even if you did draw.  You could hunt the area and if you didn't see that OIL billy, then you eat your tag and lose your points in that category.  You still keep your points and could potentially draw Goat Rocks or another tag under the "Goat" category in the future.  Am I missing something?

I may be totally off. If so I apologize. But the way I read the regs if you draw for the conflict tag it eats your oil points and is included in the OIL rules. I guess I need to go back and re read this years regs. I think it changed from last year. Again I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time

[Katmai Guy]

It has changed since last year where it was OIL.  This hunt now carries it's own point category but if you get drawn and harvest a goat it counts as an OIL goat.

[Nature Boy]

The biologist interviewed me last year to gather data about my experiences in the region.  The biologists themselves hadn't done any field surveys on foot in the region due to the severity of the terrain (that should tell you something).  They do all the field work via helicopter.  He did send me some pretty cool pics of goats taken from the helo survey...so biologist can be your friend when doing research on where to hunt!  I was actually up on the mountains scouting and got buzzed by the helo!  I was told that the National Park Service has a strategy to remove all goats from Olympic National Park and the surrounding wilderness areas.  The conflict resolution hunts are designed as a mitigation step to prevent unwanted human/goat encounters and hopefully change the NPS strategy.  The biologist felt that eventually the goats will be relocated but in the meantime WDFW wants to provide the hunt opportunity.  So the message is this hunt opportunity may not be around forever.   

[shanevg]

Such a weird decision to have a separate point category but then count the goat against your OIL allocation. I'm applying for the hunt but if I have the tag I'm passing on anything less than the state record with a bow. Definitely not their intent for the hunt.

On a side note, I know that Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance is in active discussion with WDFW and NPS about helping fund goat relocation when the time comes to do that. I strongly encourage all members to check out and join RMGA to help find valuable projects like that as well as this summers Alpine Lakes goat survey! 

[pd]

Why the need to relocate these goats?  Are they non-native?

[jackelope]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01712/wdfw01712.pdf
page 74.....

Who May Apply:
Anyone, except those who harvested
a mountain goat in Washington state
after 1998. Except for auction and raffle
permitted hunts, an individual may only
harvest one mountain goat during his or her
lifetime. This once in a lifetime restriction
includes both "Goat" and "Goat - Conflict
Reduction" categories.

[jackelope]

Why the need to relocate these goats?  Are they non-native?

Human/goat conflict.
There will be some relocation, but until that happens....WDFW is allowing some additional hunting opportunities.

[shanevg]

Why the need to relocate these goats?  Are they non-native?

Human/goat conflict.
There will be some relocation, but until that happens....WDFW is allowing some additional hunting opportunities.

Both. NPS has indicated a desire to cull the entire herd from what I've heard.

[JimmyHoffa]

Why the need to relocate these goats?  Are they non-native?

Yes, and 'dangerous' because people think park=petting zoo.  The goats (well documented ones anyways) were brought in before it was even a park.  Hiking clubs wanted them so the Olympics would look more like the Cascades and partnered with a hunting group that went and got enough goats to be huntable (~1920s).  Now the big claim is that they are eating all the lichen and alpine flora.  The park tried shooting them from helicopters but that got shut down, so they switched to tranquilizing and flying them out for relocation.  Then a group sued and blocked it saying the flights were causing psych damage to goats.  There was a season on the NF side back up until the relocation got shut down.  Forest Circus and WDFW decided to end the hunt until their studies could be done.  Then goat stuff all got ignored until the guy got killed by a goat.

[EyeTooth]

I've been working for the past week and didn't notice this thread. Wish I would have before applying for goat. You guys are on top of it!

[magnumb]

Quote from fishngamereaper:

I've been applying for 18 years and have really good knowledge of the herds from Goat Rocks to Chelan. Although it is an OIL tag, if I do draw I want it to be for an area I enjoy going to and an area Ive been trying to draw for nearly half my life. I would not want to settle on a new area just because its an option. I've spent some time in the Olympics and the quality just doesn't seem to be there. Im not fond of the early seasons, no time for the goats to hair up, and Im not fond of the crowds.
[/quote]


I've also got 18 points for elk and feel exactly the same way you do about your knowledge of a certain area and hunting that area as you enjoy it so much.

We could just 'give up' on our preferred area's for draws/hunting and put in for area's with many more permits, but I just can't even start to entertain that idea.

I'll likely die of old age with 30 or so points and wish I had, however....... .