Guns you avoid

[BigGoonTuna]

"new" remingtons.  stuff from the '90s and back, and especially the '70s and '80s is top notch in my opinion, though.

i'm just not much of an AR guy.  don't get all the "america's rifle" propaganda.  i think they're unwieldy and not really practical for me.

bill ruger is long gone.  he was no champion of gun rights, but his company did produce some beautiful rifles(i'd love to have a #1 with nice wood).

[Spawnstar]

Classic Winchesters, especially the lever guns....horrible.  I have a good disposal system, so save yourselves the headaches and send them my way.

Ill actually pay you for the Classic winchesters save you guys the trouble. Especially first models. Lol

[SGTDuffman]

Ruger and S&W because of ideological differences. I believe people should be able to own guns, they don't, so we don't get along. Troy Industries HS Precision are also on the sh** list. There is a flip side to that too though, there are companies I'm a huge supporter of for the exact opposite reasons. Barrett, STI, and Magpul all come to mind.

please explain their ideological differences

As others have said, the ideological differences with Ruger stem from Bill Ruger's ideas and support for gun control. He wrote an open letter to Congress giving them many of the ideas they now use to ban weapons, or lacking that, effectively make them useless/less useful, like reduced magazine capacities. Part of his reasoning for doing so, was that he thought it would put his competition out of business, while allowing his (at the time) 10 & 15rd firearms to continue selling. He laid much of the groundwork that is now used to ban weapons, including many of the definitions for "assault weapons". He didn't intend for civilians to own high capacity magazines, folding stocks, and endorsed waiting periods. He famously said, "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun." I guess he thought police and the military don't contain any honest men. Everyone likes to point out the fact that Bill Ruger is dead now, or that Ruger gave a million dollars to the NRA a couple years ago. What they fail to mention, or just don't understand is that Ruger based those donations on sales. They sold 400,000 guns, to donate the $1.2 million ($3/gun). To put that in perspective, Taurus at the time, was giving an NRA membership ($35) with each purchase, and they are a far smaller company sales wise, and aren't even an American company. If I were an American manufacturer, serious about supporting the American constitution, and making a show of it, like they were doing, you can damn sure bet I wouldn't be upstaged at my own game by a Brazilian company. Then again, I'm not Ruger, and I care about more than just money, I care about people's right to bear arms.

Smith and Wesson is a lot of the same. They had locks in them, supported limiting sales and distribution, turned on their dealers, made deals with the Clinton administration, and just in general makes it a rule to steal the intellectual property of others. Their entire system of revolving cylinder was stolen from Colt, they just made the cylinder rotate in the opposite direction, their L frame revolvers are a Colt Python knock off (because their K frame design was unsafe), their .38 Chiefs Specials is a .38 Colt Detectives Special knockoff (with an unsafe J frame built for a .32, so they removed a round and told you not to shoot and high speed .38), their Sigma pistols got them sued by Glock, the list goes on and on. They've been ripping off Colt designs for 150 years. They also charge exorbitant custom or semi custom prices for mass produced guns, much of which isn't even produced by them. Their 1911's come to mind (another stolen Colt design made almost entirely from aftermarket parts). Their entire M&P (Military and Police) line of guns was solely intended for sales to Military and Police, hence the name. More recently they've expanded the line (once upon a time it was just different models of revolvers) and started selling it to anyone willing to give them money, but the M&P line of S&W has been around for generations. When I say M&P, I'm not talking about the actual model they called M&P that's out now. That is a direct descendant of the Sigma pistol that got them sued by Glock, if you own one, you can guess why, if not take a look at the trigger next time you're around one. The last few years the M&P pistols have been falling out of favor or have been outright banned by many agencies that adopted them for safety/reliability issues. NC, NM, and TX have all ditched them last I checked.

I want to like both companies because they're huge and would be awesome allies with gun owners, but as far as I'm concerned they haven't changed their ways. I e-mailed both after Newtown happened and there was lots of talk about gun control, and asked them if they were going to stand with gun owners this time, or what they were doing to counter any of the legislation being submitted. I never got a response from either.

I keep a list of who's been naughty and nice, and vote with my wallet. After Newtown, both lists grew A LOT.

[Smokepole]

I don't like pink guns of any kind.  Guns are dangerous.  You can't smear pink on them and make them friendly.  Guns need to look bad#ss for a reason.  So pink guns are out. 

Don't much like military style guns.  I like wheel guns, bolt actions, double barrel shotguns.  Love Ruger single action revolvers!

I sold guns for years, and the worst quality gun I've ever seen was the NEF 12 gauge single shot.  Pretty iffy.  Felt bad selling it for $89 bucks to a high school kid. 

[yorketransport]

Any gun you can buy factory ammo for. 

Andrew

[KFhunter]

Mossberg anything

new Remington

[magnumb]

Well said SGTDuffman........ .

It was hard to believe that 'ole Bill was really doing and saying such things and until it became crystal clear that he was responsible for those comments and actions, I chose not to believe it.  It is clear that for some, when only competition and profit motivates you, strange things happen and character flaws surface.

It is now in the past, but not really.  If it were, we wouldn't give it a second thought these days, but history has obviously shown us that 'standing and banding together' means different things to different people......and companies.

[nwwanderer]

Holland&Holland and the like, all those zero are depressing

[poopooheaddad]

Lama

[thinkingman]

I am not a big fan of any Remington's besides the 870. Also not a big tikka fan I know lots of guys love em but if I want a cheap, light, accurate rifle I'll stick with my savage axis.

I bought a model 700 classic in the early 70s in .30-06 and the gun has performed well every time out. I love that gun. I also have a 12 gauge 1187 that's been a good gun, but the recoil track inside the action has become razor sharp over the years and if I'm not careful when I clean it, I get cut. I had a problem with the ejector arms but replaced those and it works flawlessly. I upgraded the barrel to a 28" and it's a goose killin' machine.

My 1187 does run well but I don't shoot it nearly as well as my Brownings.

I did find out about the razor blade inside the action one night before a hunt.
That thing cuts right through a shop rag and about 3/8" of a fingertip!

[JimmyHoffa]

Lama

I think the factory must have transposed an order number or something when it came to springs.  Trying to think if any lamas have fired reliably without a spring swap.  Not the gun design since most are 1911 copies.

[skeeter 20i]

Anything from H&K.  I love their products but will never do business again with them because of the their poor CS.  YMMV but I'm done with them.