"I don't come up with solutions" she says....

[wolfbait]

Somehow showing the antis wintering grounds with significantly impacted herds today compared to numbers from 10, 15, 20 years ago...
Push for more detailed ungulate studies and petition for the states records to show trends, not harvest data but real on the ground surveys that match the effort they"claim" to put into counting wolves.

Take them into towns around the northeast that are severely impacted by reduced hunting numbers or invite those impacted to speak to what that is doing to there communities.

In the northeast show them the significant amount of deer in very close proximity to humans sure to the vast amount of predators. wolves, cats and bears

Thanks!  Some good ideas to start with and build something that all could see as to how predators are affecting not only our neighborhoods, but the $$ raised to continue conservation of all species.  A good start....


I'll have more.....

Make it very clear with stats just how much money hunters put into conservation through different organizations and the wdfw by way of license, tags and such. Also include P&R act funds that help fed and state agencies. 

Find the amount of taxpayer and sportsmen's money fed and state agencies are forced to waste on lawsuits brought against them by anti-hunting/pro-wolf groups. Pointing out the hypocrisy that these groups have shown by supporting management plans and then suing once goals in plans are met!  Some of which are on the WAG


However you feel about master hunters, the 20hrs of conservation type volunteer activities they are required to complete ads up and is an easily referenced point to our side.

Don't worry everything is good!

"Yes, hunter's interests are represented well in the group.  I spoke with every member there, and spent extra time talking to the members from CNW, DofW, Sierra Club, and HSUS.  3 of these members grew up in and understand our hunting heritage, and are not opposed to hunting personally or as a representative of their group.  The other member has never been exposed to hunting, but is not against hunting at all."

"I would suggest that all of you interested look up the audio of the meeting.  I believe they are also putting together notes of the whole meeting.  Before you decide your judgment, I would encourage you to hear it straight from the meeting instead of conjecture and rumors from authors of articles.  As for Director Unsworth, I spoke with him, too, and all he wanted to do was talk about hunting, especially mule deer. "


"I am from a "science based" mgmt. philosophy, as many hunters are.  He and others no longer have the luxury of thinking that way.  What I mean by that is the social impacts are going to be the biggest challenge of wolves in WA.  Are they "special"?  Absolutely not, wolfbait; they are the same wolves as in ID, WY, and MT.  The difference isn't our wolves, it's our population and demographics."

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,174866.125.html




And knowing this WDFW came out with their 15 BP wolf plan. So instead of managing wolves it sounds more like they are going to manage people.


When were the most recent deer and elk survey done by wdfw? Not hunter harvest, actual survey's like there wolf studies. Anyone have stats for the last 10-20 years?  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,175130.0.html

[Humptulips]

Muledeer and anyone else in the group care to share your notes and thoughts??? Are hunters interest represented ??

"Department director Jim Unsworth told the advisory group it will take time to see how wolves affect different aspects of the Washington landscape compared to previous wolf introductions in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming."

What a load of 💩     

A wolf is a wolf I a MF wolf 

Yes, hunter's interests are represented well in the group.  I spoke with every member there, and spent extra time talking to the members from CNW, DofW, Sierra Club, and HSUS.  3 of these members grew up in and understand our hunting heritage, and are not opposed to hunting personally or as a representative of their group.  The other member has never been exposed to hunting, but is not against hunting at all.  We are currently working on a time to hit the woods, so he can see what we do and why we do it.  I was very pleased to find that there is not one "anti hunter" in this group.  Of all groups represented, only one has ever had an anti-hunting agenda published, and it was HSUS.  But that statement was made over 20 years ago, and not all members, including their rep on the WAG, are anti hunting. 

Honestly do you not realize you are being fed a line of BS? I mean look at HSUS. They are always against hunting when ever they are involved with any wildlife management issue.
Here's a few quotes from their President and CEO Wayne Pacelle,
“If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would.” —Wayne Pacelle, Associated Press, Dec 30, 1991

“Our goal is to get sport hunting in the same category as cock fighting and dog fighting.” —Wayne Pacelle, (Bozeman (MT) Daily Chronicle, October 8, 1991

“We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States … We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state. —Wayne Pacelle, Full Cry Magazine, October 1, 1990.

Do you really think he changed his core philosophy or maybe decided to cool the rhetoric so he would be considered a little more mainstream?

HSUS is an animal rights organization and if animal have rights that pretty much rules out hunting or animal agriculture as seen by this quote from J P Goodwin HSUS United States Manager,
 “My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.” —JP Goodwin, employed at the Humane Society of the US, formerly at Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, as quoted on AR-Views, an animal rights Internet discussion group in 1996.

[jasnt]

Muledeer and anyone else in the group care to share your notes and thoughts??? Are hunters interest represented ??

"Department director Jim Unsworth told the advisory group it will take time to see how wolves affect different aspects of the Washington landscape compared to previous wolf introductions in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming."

What a load of 💩     

A wolf is a wolf I a MF wolf 

Yes, hunter's interests are represented well in the group.  I spoke with every member there, and spent extra time talking to the members from CNW, DofW, Sierra Club, and HSUS.  3 of these members grew up in and understand our hunting heritage, and are not opposed to hunting personally or as a representative of their group.  The other member has never been exposed to hunting, but is not against hunting at all.  We are currently working on a time to hit the woods, so he can see what we do and why we do it.  I was very pleased to find that there is not one "anti hunter" in this group.  Of all groups represented, only one has ever had an anti-hunting agenda published, and it was HSUS.  But that statement was made over 20 years ago, and not all members, including their rep on the WAG, are anti hunting. 

Honestly do you not realize you are being fed a line of BS? I mean look at HSUS. They are always against hunting when ever they are involved with any wildlife management issue.
Here's a few quotes from their President and CEO Wayne Pacelle,
“If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would.” —Wayne Pacelle, Associated Press, Dec 30, 1991

“Our goal is to get sport hunting in the same category as cock fighting and dog fighting.” —Wayne Pacelle, (Bozeman (MT) Daily Chronicle, October 8, 1991

“We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States … We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state. —Wayne Pacelle, Full Cry Magazine, October 1, 1990.

Do you really think he changed his core philosophy or maybe decided to cool the rhetoric so he would be considered a little more mainstream?

HSUS is an animal rights organization and if animal have rights that pretty much rules out hunting or animal agriculture as seen by this quote from J P Goodwin HSUS United States Manager,
 “My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.” —JP Goodwin, employed at the Humane Society of the US, formerly at Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, as quoted on AR-Views, an animal rights Internet discussion group in 1996.

[Special T]

Im gona go out on a limb and make a few assumptions.

What I hear Muledeer saying is he/we need to make the best of the hand we are delt. That said SPORTSMEN need to organsize and make sure these anti hunting groups are not at the table, and if they are they should be a small minority. The Only way for this to happen is for US to do something about it.

Ive talked a little about this before but it needs repeating. Fishery Orgs have made some headway because they have organised. Coastal Conservation Associaiton  http://www.joincca.org/about Is one of those Orgs that has done a bunch of banding different Nonprofits together  for the benifit of all. While I dont necessarily think Wa has to have its onwn non profit to organise on this issue HOW CCA goes about bringing groups together is important to understand and duplicate. ( I am not a member nor do i fish). Fishing has done a better job of showing its economic benifit, and getting groups like Trout unlimited Federation of Fly Fishers and others to come together as one voice so that Gov can see the ammount of agreement  across the board all the Orgs have. As sportsmen we can have the discussions and arguments about the kind of style of hunting we enjoy, but we have focused too much on the differnces that divide Rifle, Muzzy& Archery methods instead of the MAIN points that bind us together. Local stake holders need to band together and hash out points of agreement THEN take them to the state. One of the complaints the WDFW has said in the past is "why should we do X Y or Z when the sportsmen aren't even on the same page?"

I dont like HSUS DoW, or CNW. They dont represent me, my views, or act in sportmens best intrest like so many other HUNTING orgs. Traditional Bowhunters of Washington, Washington State Achery Associaiton or Washington state Bowhunters Do a much better job of representing ME an archery hunter even if I dont suscribe to all of thier points of emphesis. These 3 Groups have meet together to meet the state with a unified message on several archery related topics including crossbows. This Organisation of Organisations needs expanding to include groups like Washington Muzzlelaoders Assocation, Washingotn state Rifle and Pistol assocation and Others who a vested interest in our hunting heritage.

If you belong to a sportsmens Org make it KNOWN that you think your Org should be Ralleying with others who generally agree on issues. As a Archer I KNOW I agree more with Rifle hunters on certain issues much more than I do with HSUS or DoW!

[jasnt]

I agree special T. We need a group that represents all hunters and trappers. Rifle, archery, and muzzy.  There is one thing we all agree on! We love what we do and the wildlife involved.  I would be happy to support any hunting group that can actually make a difference. I'm also happy to support all other hunters in their endeavors to preserve or sport and continue to conserve our ways of life. 

[Humptulips]

You guys are trying to reinvent the wheel.
http://huntersheritagecouncil.org/

All you have to do is get your organization to join.

[huntnphool]

Im gona go out on a limb and make a few assumptions.

What I hear Muledeer saying is he/we need to make the best of the hand we are delt. That said SPORTSMEN need to organsize and make sure these anti hunting groups are not at the table, and if they are they should be a small minority. The Only way for this to happen is for US to do something about it.

Ive talked a little about this before but it needs repeating. Fishery Orgs have made some headway because they have organised. Coastal Conservation Associaiton  http://www.joincca.org/about Is one of those Orgs that has done a bunch of banding different Nonprofits together  for the benifit of all. While I dont necessarily think Wa has to have its onwn non profit to organise on this issue HOW CCA goes about bringing groups together is important to understand and duplicate. ( I am not a member nor do i fish). Fishing has done a better job of showing its economic benifit, and getting groups like Trout unlimited Federation of Fly Fishers and others to come together as one voice so that Gov can see the ammount of agreement  across the board all the Orgs have. As sportsmen we can have the discussions and arguments about the kind of style of hunting we enjoy, but we have focused too much on the differnces that divide Rifle, Muzzy& Archery methods instead of the MAIN points that bind us together. Local stake holders need to band together and hash out points of agreement THEN take them to the state. One of the complaints the WDFW has said in the past is "why should we do X Y or Z when the sportsmen aren't even on the same page?"

I dont like HSUS DoW, or CNW. They dont represent me, my views, or act in sportmens best intrest like so many other HUNTING orgs. Traditional Bowhunters of Washington, Washington State Achery Associaiton or Washington state Bowhunters Do a much better job of representing ME an archery hunter even if I dont suscribe to all of thier points of emphesis. These 3 Groups have meet together to meet the state with a unified message on several archery related topics including crossbows. This Organisation of Organisations needs expanding to include groups like Washington Muzzlelaoders Assocation, Washingotn state Rifle and Pistol assocation and Others who a vested interest in our hunting heritage.

If you belong to a sportsmens Org make it KNOWN that you think your Org should be Ralleying with others who generally agree on issues. As a Archer I KNOW I agree more with Rifle hunters on certain issues much more than I do with HSUS or DoW!

 I agree with a lot of this T, but not completely in regards to the archery orgs you mentioned. Yes they get a voice in a lot of the GMAC meetings and bend the ear of WDFW, but a couple of them do not speak for the majority of archery hunters. That's a discussion we can have later so as to not get off topic though.

 Bottom line, we need to organize a group that can participate in these meetings with WDFW, one that will actually speak for the group as whole, after getting a majority consensus from participating hunters, not just the opinion of those that will be appointed to represent them.

[Special T]

Im gona go out on a limb and make a few assumptions.

What I hear Muledeer saying is he/we need to make the best of the hand we are delt. That said SPORTSMEN need to organsize and make sure these anti hunting groups are not at the table, and if they are they should be a small minority. The Only way for this to happen is for US to do something about it.

Ive talked a little about this before but it needs repeating. Fishery Orgs have made some headway because they have organised. Coastal Conservation Associaiton  http://www.joincca.org/about Is one of those Orgs that has done a bunch of banding different Nonprofits together  for the benifit of all. While I dont necessarily think Wa has to have its onwn non profit to organise on this issue HOW CCA goes about bringing groups together is important to understand and duplicate. ( I am not a member nor do i fish). Fishing has done a better job of showing its economic benifit, and getting groups like Trout unlimited Federation of Fly Fishers and others to come together as one voice so that Gov can see the ammount of agreement  across the board all the Orgs have. As sportsmen we can have the discussions and arguments about the kind of style of hunting we enjoy, but we have focused too much on the differnces that divide Rifle, Muzzy& Archery methods instead of the MAIN points that bind us together. Local stake holders need to band together and hash out points of agreement THEN take them to the state. One of the complaints the WDFW has said in the past is "why should we do X Y or Z when the sportsmen aren't even on the same page?"

I dont like HSUS DoW, or CNW. They dont represent me, my views, or act in sportmens best intrest like so many other HUNTING orgs. Traditional Bowhunters of Washington, Washington State Achery Associaiton or Washington state Bowhunters Do a much better job of representing ME an archery hunter even if I dont suscribe to all of thier points of emphesis. These 3 Groups have meet together to meet the state with a unified message on several archery related topics including crossbows. This Organisation of Organisations needs expanding to include groups like Washington Muzzlelaoders Assocation, Washingotn state Rifle and Pistol assocation and Others who a vested interest in our hunting heritage.

If you belong to a sportsmens Org make it KNOWN that you think your Org should be Ralleying with others who generally agree on issues. As a Archer I KNOW I agree more with Rifle hunters on certain issues much more than I do with HSUS or DoW!

 I agree with a lot of this T, but not completely in regards to the archery orgs you mentioned. Yes they get a voice in a lot of the GMAC meetings and bend the ear of WDFW, but a couple of them do not speak for the majority of archery hunters. That's a discussion we can have later so as to not get off topic though.

 Bottom line, we need to organize a group that can participate in these meetings with WDFW, one that will actually speak for the group as whole, after getting a majority consensus from participating hunters, not just the opinion of those that will be appointed to represent them.

You bring up a great point. There are 3 different Archery Orgs because each has its own emphasis. Despite their differences they have come together on points of mutual interest to bend the states ear. We get plenty of which is better Ford Vs Chevy on here and it makes for interesting discussion, however it does not focus on our common needs or goals.

[Special T]

You guys are trying to reinvent the wheel.
http://huntersheritagecouncil.org/

All you have to do is get your organization to join.

Interesting, had never heard of them before.

One of the problems We sportsmen have is that we are sooo strong willed the solution has to be our way or no way. Perhaps this Org can, has done some outreach in the that could help facilitate us organizing.

[jasnt]

You guys are trying to reinvent the wheel.
http://huntersheritagecouncil.org/

All you have to do is get your organization to join.

thanks for the link. I had not heard of them either

[pianoman9701]

Here's the audio portion of the WAG meeting in Spokane. Not great recording, so it's hard to hear parts.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/audio/20150521.mp3

Here's the WAG page where you can get the handouts and meeting notes, as well.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/

[Humptulips]

You guys are trying to reinvent the wheel.
http://huntersheritagecouncil.org/

All you have to do is get your organization to join.

Interesting, had never heard of them before.

One of the problems We sportsmen have is that we are sooo strong willed the solution has to be our way or no way. Perhaps this Org can, has done some outreach in the that could help facilitate us organizing.

HHC does have a lobbyist in Olympia. They do a lot for us legislatively. They could do more if more organizations were involved. They don't solicit individuals for membership. Get your organization to join.

[bearpaw]

PLEASE READ:

I have some concerns about this discussion. There are thousands of members on this forum and an even greater number of hunters and non-hunters who read this forum but do not belong to the forum. The forum had over 85,000 unique visitors (different IP addresses) during the last 30 days. We all have a little different view on what we believe, but as hunters we need to find common ground to support each other and to further our sport of hunting.

This discussion has only had 5353 views, but my concern is that a few members are going too far with personal insults, name calling, and/or condescending remarks. I know it's hard to control emotions and comments when we are worried about the future of hunting, but rather than agitate, please model your comments in a respectful and constructive manner so that you do not drive other members away from the discussion. We will be monitoring this discussion, we will take action when rules are violated, (there are some borderline comments) so please let's keep this a respectful constructive discussion.

THANK YOU

[Netminder01]

PLEASE READ:

I have some concerns about this discussion. There are thousands of members on this forum and an even greater number of hunters and non-hunters who read this forum but do not belong to the forum. The forum had over 85,000 unique visitors (different IP addresses) during the last 30 days. We all have a little different view on what we believe, but as hunters we need to find common ground to support each other and to further our sport of hunting.

This discussion has only had 5353 views, but my concern is that a few members are going too far with personal insults, name calling, and/or condescending remarks. I know it's hard to control emotions and comments when we are worried about the future of hunting, but rather than agitate, please model your comments in a respectful and constructive manner so that you do not drive other members away from the discussion. We will be monitoring this discussion, we will take action when rules are violated, (there are some borderline comments) so please let's keep this a respectful constructive discussion.

THANK YOU