Starting to get excited.

[jetjockey]

In less than 3 weeks I'll be jumping on a plane to Johanasburg South Africa to shoot some birds over what I hope, is some good pointers and setters.   We will be hunting Francolin over pointing dogs, Guinea Fowl, geese, ducks, pigeons, doves, and God only knows what else.  I can't wait to see how it's done in SA, and see the differences between American breeding and training, and African breeding and training, of Pointers and Setters.  With any luck, it won't cost a ton of money to get a couple birds mounted, because this may be my only opportunity to hunt SA.

[gregr072]

That sounds like an amazing trip!  How did you decide on that location?

[AspenBud]

In less than 3 weeks I'll be jumping on a plane to Johanasburg South Africa to shoot some birds over what I hope, is some good pointers and setters.   We will be hunting Francolin over pointing dogs, Guinea Fowl, geese, ducks, pigeons, doves, and God only knows what else.  I can't wait to see how it's done in SA, and see the differences between American breeding and training, and African breeding and training, of Pointers and Setters.  With any luck, it won't cost a ton of money to get a couple birds mounted, because this may be my only opportunity to hunt SA.

Expect level tailed Pointers.

[Bwana Bob]

Jet,I hunted big game there but saw a lot of birds while hunting. the S. Africans are great people and hunters, you will have a great time.

[jetjockey]

Gregr.. My Father in Law will be on a 10 day Buffalo/plains game hunt prior to the bird hunt.  Since he will already be in SA, he added 4 days of bird hunting to the end of the Buffalo hunt, and invited me to go with him on the bird hunt.  The hunt is basically a turn key hunt set up by the outfitter.

Bwana.  Someday I will hopefully be able to kill a buffalo and plains game in SA as well.  I have a feeling this will only make me want to hunt big game there even more.

[MLBowhunting]

Very cool.  I hope to see some awesome pictures.

[splitshot]

   good for you.  bring back some pics,lots of pics.  have a great time.  mike w

[gregr072]

Sounds like a great trip!  I'm curious about the dogs and birds as well.  Hope to get a report when you return!

[Bwana Bob]

The guy I hunt within SA had friends that had GSP & GWP. Lots of snakes and other things that can kill a dog in a heartbeat in Africa. I bet they never make it to old age like here in the USA.

[Ddouble]

I lost a Jack Russel to a spitting cobra when I was a kid. Another time we came home and another Jack Russel had a 6ft spitting cobra at the front door step. Fun times I still find it funny that I only got into hunting when moving to the U.S.

[AspenBud]

The snakes are why I have no desire to hunt there.   

[jetjockey]

They can't be too much worse than we have down here in the South!.......  Can they?  ....  Haha. We have nasty crawly things that bite everywhere down here.   Snakes are the reason I won't put my dog down to hunt till after the first good freeze.

[AspenBud]

They can't be too much worse than we have down here in the South!.......  Can they?  ....  Haha. We have nasty crawly things that bite everywhere down here.   Snakes are the reason I won't put my dog down to hunt till after the first good freeze.

South Africa has more lethal varieties.    But yeah, I saw a picture that the 1st VP, Scott Townsend, of the NSTRA posted a while back of an eastern rattler that one of his dogs pointed down in Florida, the thing was a good 4-5 feet and thick. No thanks.

And lucky you, you can even worry about feral pythons and boas down there now.

[jetjockey]

One week to go.  Here's who we are hunting with.  I hope my 20ga is enough for those Geese.  The guy the trip was booked through said they were big!  I didn't realize they were the biggest geese in the WORLD!     let's hope they have 3" 20ga shells! 

http://www.birdhuntersafrica.com

[jetjockey]

I started another post in the upland bird forum with more pictures.  But, I can now honestly say Id love to own a cross between an American Pointer and a South Africa "English" as they call them.  Yes, their Pointers point with low tails and the dogs tend to crouch down much more than our Pointers, which point tall and proud with a 12 o'clock tail, but screw the tails, Id MUCH rather own an African bred Pointer than one of ours.  Their dogs are bird machines.  They range, hunt, and point very well.  But here's the kicker, their "Englishes" retrieve like a lab and LOVE the water!  They retrieve as well as any lab in a duck blind and will swim all day long,  then they will range out for upland birds and are tough as nails.   The dogs I watched were probably the most versatile pointing dogs I have ever seen.  After a hunt we made the mistake of watering the dogs in a 25-50 acre pond that held several hundred ducks, and one of the pointers decided to go chase swimming Ducks.  I honestly thought the dog was going to drown he chased them for so long.  He was on the water for a solid 20 minutes swimming after hirds in the middle of the pond.  It was pretty amazing and really opened my eyes on what different breeding programs can do to a breed.   We also hunted over a couple of GSP's that reminded my a lot of ours, only a little bigger.  Here's a picture of the Pointer heading out after the ducks.  The little v in the water is the dog heading out.

[AspenBud]

I started another post in the upland bird forum with more pictures.  But, I can now honestly say Id love to own a cross between an American Pointer and a South Africa "English" as they call them.  Yes, their Pointers point with low tails and the dogs tend to crouch down much more than our Pointers, which point tall and proud with a 12 o'clock tail, but screw the tails, Id MUCH rather own an African bred Pointer than one of ours.  Their dogs are bird machines.  They range, hunt, and point very well.  But here's the kicker, their "Englishes" retrieve like a lab and LOVE the water!  They retrieve as well as any lab in a duck blind and will swim all day long,  then they will range out for upland birds and are tough as nails.   The dogs I watched were probably the most versatile pointing dogs I have ever seen.  After a hunt we made the mistake of watering the dogs in a 25-50 acre pond that held several hundred ducks, and one of the pointers decided to go chase swimming Ducks.  I honestly thought the dog was going to drown he chased them for so long.  He was on the water for a solid 20 minutes swimming after hirds in the middle of the pond.  It was pretty amazing and really opened my eyes on what different breeding programs can do to a breed.   We also hunted over a couple of GSP's that reminded my a lot of ours, only a little bigger.  Here's a picture of the Pointer heading out after the ducks.  The little v in the water is the dog heading out.

In fairness those dogs probably see more birds in a month than most will in ten years of hunting...anywhere.

There's a lot of hubris in the Pointer world here, particularly within AF circles (and rightly so) but it has also led to some narrowing of the gene pool over the years and led people to ignore what the rest of the world has to offer in terms of Pointer genetics. I like the 12 o'clock tail, high head, etc but that obsession among field dog breeders here has kept out some good genes over the years.

The above said, I have a Pointer pup right now, that loves water and already has the beginnings of a nice natural retrieve. Most of the breeding is cover dog and NSTRA blood. Get out of the South!      

There is a thread or two on Upland Journal where people compared European Pointer/setter lines versus American ones. You should post your observations there and see what people think...

http://www.uplandjournal.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard312a/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=2;t=93645

http://www.uplandjournal.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard312a/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=2;t=93470