Front Stuffer Debate on KOMO

[bucklucky]

IMO, if they allow you to scope a pumpkin stuffer, they should run the season with the modern firearm guys  Lets keep the ML to a somewhat traditional type hunting. I think the scopes are too much.

[Antlershed]

Pretty interesting article. I like the current regs on muzzleloaders in WA. No scopes, and no 209's.

[deerslyr]

I think we should be able to use copper jacketed bullets. All the other rules are fine but i heard of 3 animals this year lost to muzzleloaders and im convinced they could of been recovered if a jacketed bullet was used.

[jdb]

I think we should be able to use copper jacketed bullets. All the other rules are fine but i heard of 3 animals this year lost to muzzleloaders and im convinced they could of been recovered if a jacketed bullet was used.

Not trying to be a jerk but I find that VERY hard to believe. imho jacketed bullets are less reliable than a good conical bullet.

[Curly]

I could see where one of the Barnes solid copper ML bullets would work better than a "lightweight" all lead bullet in a sabot. 

Guys use sabots and "light" all lead bullets for a flatter trajectory, thus increasing the range that they feel comfortable shooting.  The problem is that the bullet needs double lung the elk to be effictive, especially at longer ranges IMO.  With a solid copper Barnes bullet, you could probably shoot the elk right in the shoulder and have the bullet pass through into the vitals.  With the all lead bullet, it would likely not make it into the vitals.

I think Oregon doesn't even allow sabots and maybe Colorado too.........Idaho maybe.  I'm a little surprised that this state even allows saboted bullets.  If sabots weren't allowed, then heavy conicals would be the norm; then ranges would be limitted to +/- 100 yards and I think less animals would be wounded by guys trying bad shots at longer ranges.

A big conical could bust right through the shoulder too, and into the vitals.

I have a 54 cal sidelock and a 50 cal inline.  I use saboted bullets in the inline and big conicals in the sidelock.  I only take broadside lung shots, though with the inline.....125yd max range.

I'm on the fence re: allowing the use of jacketed bullets, but I lean toward not allowing them. 

Actually, I'd prefer to limit ML's to sidelock only and no sabots and then get some more units and move the season a week earlier (so that it is during the end of the rut).  But I won't hold my breath for that wish to happen.

[MeatDown]

Keep it traditional… Proud sidelock shooter … Lyman Great Plains .50 open sights…

If you want a scope on a muzzle loader and want to shoot long range with it… you can… just hunt during Modern Firearm Season

No Scope, No 209 – More GMU’s

Also, this article plays into the states ability to “divide and concur”

[CP]

If you want a scope on a muzzle loader and want to shoot long range with it… you can… just hunt during Modern Firearm Season

No you can't even do that;

From: TeamMillCreek [mailto:TeamMillCreek@dfw.wa.gov]
Subject: Re: Question on muzzleloader regulations:

The muzzleloader regulations regard to all muzzloaders at all times.  So no,
you would not be able to use that weapon in the modern firearm season or
muzzleloader season.
 
Sincerely,
Region 4 Customer Service

Do the muzzleloader regulations on page 67 of the Big Game Hunting
Seasons & Regulations pamphlet apply to muzzleloaders used during the
modern firearms season or just during muzzleloader season?
Specifically, I'd like to use a scoped muzzleloader with a 209 primer
system for deer hunting during modern firearm deer season. Would that
be a violation?

Thank you,

[BIGBULLBALLS]

I see a lot of you guys don't want scopes and 209 primers.  I could not agree more about the whole no scope issue but what is the big deal about 209 primers.  I bow hunt elk and front stuff for deer in washington.  Here is one fact I have learned, ever time I draw my bow, I touch the trigger and my arrow flies toward my target.  Now if my smokepole gets a little wet all I get is click and not click boom like it should.  All I'm saying is we could use 209 primers, gain little to no accuracy over conventional systems, and gain reliability.  A win win in my book

[Ridgerunner]

MZ regs in this state are a joke, you can't tell me that technology has not made bowhunting more easy, perhaps we should only allow bows to be shot without a trigger or longbow only, no compounds(keep it more primitive).  Its pretty sad imo, I'd love to try MZ hunting but with the current regs in the state I probably won't. 

[DBake]

MZ regs in this state are a joke, you can't tell me that technology has not made bowhunting more easy, perhaps we should only allow bows to be shot without a trigger or longbow only, no compounds(keep it more primitive).  Its pretty sad imo, I'd love to try MZ hunting but with the current regs in the state I probably won't. 

No offense to you Ridgerunner, but I really like to hear that from people with the same opinion as you. Less people when I am hunting. 

[jdb]

I see a lot of you guys don't want scopes and 209 primers.  I could not agree more about the whole no scope issue but what is the big deal about 209 primers.  I bow hunt elk and front stuff for deer in washington.  Here is one fact I have learned, ever time I draw my bow, I touch the trigger and my arrow flies toward my target.  Now if my smokepole gets a little wet all I get is click and not click boom like it should.  All I'm saying is we could use 209 primers, gain little to no accuracy over conventional systems, and gain reliability.  A win win in my book

I agree.

[bucklucky]

MZ regs in this state are a joke, you can't tell me that technology has not made bowhunting more easy, perhaps we should only allow bows to be shot without a trigger or longbow only, no compounds(keep it more primitive).  Its pretty sad imo, I'd love to try MZ hunting but with the current regs in the state I probably won't. 

Valid point! I do agree to a point 

[muzzleman]

No scopes, no 209, yes to copper and jacketed bullets.
I like the idea you need to be close.  The more modern you make front stuffing the more hunters you will get.  If the changed it to completly to flintlock I would still do it.  Just go spend a couple of days out hunting in the modern season.

[MIKEXRAY]

I am a mz and archer hunter that went archery exclusive 5 years ago. I think there is a huge difference between mz and archery advancements. I was watching a hunting show with the guy using a mz. It had electronic ignition with a flashing led on top to let him know when it was ready, & the breach was totally sealed. It was also topped with a 3x9 scope with a drop compensation reticule. He likes to limit his shots to under 250 yards, but killed the white tail @ 210 yards. I don't see how anyone can argue that this weapon is much different from a rifle and probably better than say a 30-30 as far as performance. Even with all of today's archery technology it takes a hell of a lot of practice to consistently shoot a good group at 40 yards, and after my last five years archery hunting I can attest to how hard it is to get within 40 yards of a big game animal. I think the regs are perfect the way they are as far as equipment used. When I do go out mz hunting I don't want some idiot out there with gun described above. One point : I did go to archery exclusive because the areas, game allowed during mz season suck. They should get longer seasons with better areas. Spike bull only with mz is a bitch. My 

[Ridgerunner]

One point : I did go to archery exclusive because the areas, game allowed during mz season suck. They should get longer seasons with better areas.

IF they changed the above they would get more participation even with the equipment regulations that go too far in my opinion.  Not saying they should allow 209 primers or scopes although one or the other wouldn't be bad but the fact is the MZ hunters in this state get screwed when it comes to opportunity.