How to tell if my arrow is too stiff of too weak?

[Muleyman27]

So I'm shooting victory rip v3 .204. I am shooting a montec g5. 100g broadhead. My arrow length with the broadhead is exactly 33". Arrow wieght with broadhead is 456g. FOC came out to 11.7% I am shooting a Martin vulture 60# draw weight 35.5" ATA and 31" draw length. how can u tell if your arrow is too weak too stiff or just right? I am almost done broadhead tuning and it hit about 1-2" below field tips. Any advice is much appreciated

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Broadhead weight usually affects spine and arrow flight, a heavy tip DECREASES an arrow's spine (makes it act more limber). A lighter tip INCREASES an arrow's spine (makes it act more stiff). If the arrow is too stiff it will favor the left side while if the arrow is a bit weak, it favors the right side.

[SGTDuffman]

I typically run my compound stuff through a program I have. It's stunningly accurate, provided the information you input is as complete and accurate as possible. It pretty routinely gets my finished arrow weights and speeds within a 2-3 grains and 2-3 feet per second. That's all under the condition that I account for as many things as I can, like: bow make, model, year, ibo speed, draw length, draw weight, and weight on the string from peeps, silencers, d-loops, etc.; arrow make, model, spine, length, fletching type, fletching weight, number of fletches, wrap weight if there is one, nock weight, pin/bushing weight is there is one, insert weight, and point weight.

Typically arrow lengths are also measured from the valley of the nock, to the front of the insert, and you don't include the point. You could try shooting shafts thru some paper from 6-10 feet and see where you're at. Shooting from pretty close like that into a fairly consistent media like a foam block might give you some indication, if the shafts stick in the target oriented one way or the other, like tail left or tail right. If you know someone with a pretty good video recorder, you may be able to set a camera up near your target and watch the arrows in flight.


Check this out, it might save you some time. https://shootingtime.com/bow-tuning/paper-tuning-a-bow/

[zike]

We used to shoot an arrow with the fletch removed. The problem with stiffness and nock height really show up when there's no fletch to straighten the arrows flight.

[dreamunelk]

Try a 125grn field tip and see what happens.  I know I will get flamed for saying this so light me up.  Aerodynamically  broadheads and field tips are different.  Just look at them and ask yourself if air flows the same around them. 
That said you could mention the distance you are shooting and the number of arrows to get to your grouping measurements.  Overall I am not sure I would stress about 2 inches. Just site for the broad heads.
You could also set your bow down for a couple days and see what your group looks like then.

[Vo2max]

Muleyman,
Try inputting your specs into archersadvantageonline.com... Does a very good job with determining if you're using correct dynamic spine rather than using the arrow charts from the manufacturers.

[whacker1]

Why are your arrows 33"?  How long is your draw length?  are you measuring from end of knock to tip of broadhead?

Are you shooting the 300 spine in the RIP?

Either you are exceedingly tall with a huge wing span or your draw length is set to an overdraw?  I am just guessing, but i know very few people that need draw length that long. 

RadSav posted a really helpful tuning thread over the last several months and talks a lot about spine and tuning
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,171960.0.html

I would read this whole thread and try some of his suggestions to see if you can't figure it out. If you are shooting 350 spine, i would bet you are too weak.  At a 300 spine with that length you may be on the fence..... 

I wouldn't go buy 250 spine arrows until you try the tuning tips that RadSav suggests.

[lamrith]

Why are your arrows 33"?  How long is your draw length?  are you measuring from end of knock to tip of broadhead?

Are you shooting the 300 spine in the RIP?

Either you are exceedingly tall with a huge wing span or your draw length is set to an overdraw?  I am just guessing, but i know very few people that need draw length that long. 

RadSav posted a really helpful tuning thread over the last several months and talks a lot about spine and tuning
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,171960.0.html

I would read this whole thread and try some of his suggestions to see if you can't figure it out. If you are shooting 350 spine, i would bet you are too weak.  At a 300 spine with that length you may be on the fence..... 

I wouldn't go buy 250 spine arrows until you try the tuning tips that RadSav suggests.

He was including the broadhead in his measurement, so it is skewed higher than how we normally measure.  I do not have one in front of me to measure but broadhheads is probably at least 1.5"?  With 31" draw brings hims right into line without knowing his exact bow/rest set-up I think..?

Great thread, tagging to follow it.  I think I am overspined a little on mine so looking forward to learning more about it..

[whacker1]

Why are your arrows 33"?  How long is your draw length?  are you measuring from end of knock to tip of broadhead?

Are you shooting the 300 spine in the RIP?

Either you are exceedingly tall with a huge wing span or your draw length is set to an overdraw?  I am just guessing, but i know very few people that need draw length that long. 

RadSav posted a really helpful tuning thread over the last several months and talks a lot about spine and tuning
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,171960.0.html

I would read this whole thread and try some of his suggestions to see if you can't figure it out. If you are shooting 350 spine, i would bet you are too weak.  At a 300 spine with that length you may be on the fence..... 

I wouldn't go buy 250 spine arrows until you try the tuning tips that RadSav suggests.

He was including the broadhead in his measurement, so it is skewed higher than how we normally measure.  I do not have one in front of me to measure but broadhheads is probably at least 1.5"?  With 31" draw brings hims right into line without knowing his exact bow/rest set-up I think..?

Great thread, tagging to follow it.  I think I am overspined a little on mine so looking forward to learning more about it..

I see, that would make more sense that you are looking at 31 - 31.5" arrow.  I missed that before.  a 300 spine would likely be closer to the right arrow, but the 350 spine arrow would likely be too weak on my knee jerk reaction.  However, I am willing to bet that RadSav would tell us to walk through the tuning prior to changing arrows. 

[Muleyman27]

Okay I will definitely Try the website that vo2max suggested. And I will read radsav thread for sure. I am using a qad Drop away rest. I I am almost done tuning. I am using the Eastons tuning guide. I have bareshaft tuned. Paper tuned. And I need to make a few adjustments with Brodhead tuning still. Idk If I am a 300 spine or 350 spine how do you tell? I can get the correct measurements on my arrow length without Broadhead Later tonight when I'm done swathing hay. I know he did not have to cut the arrow it was factory Length Plus a half an inch long threaded insert

[whacker1]

Okay I will definitely Try the website that vo2max suggested. And I will read radsav thread for sure. I am using a qad Drop away rest. I I am almost done tuning. I am using the Eastons tuning guide. I have bareshaft tuned. Paper tuned. And I need to make a few adjustments with Brodhead tuning still. Idk If I am a 300 spine or 350 spine how do you tell? I can get the correct measurements on my arrow length without Broadhead Later tonight when I'm done swathing hay. I know he did not have to cut the arrow it was factory Length Plus a half an inch long threaded insert

http://victoryarchery.com/?page_id=10752

The V3 picture on the web-site shows the gamer & the Elite as "-350" following the text elite on the shaft of the arrow on the link.  I assume the 300 spine arrow would show just like the 350 and 400 spine arrow show.  I don't and haven't shot Victory, so someone else may need to confirm. 

If they are older versions that may not show that, then I am not sure how you would confirm.

I did look at the Victory chart and appears that they come as 31.5" blanks, and their own chart shows 57-61 lb hard cam bow should be in a 300 spine arrow

[Muleyman27]

I have the gamer

[theleo]

the chart on the victory web site has them recommending you in a 300 spine with arrows 30.5-31.5 inches. Considering your on the long end I'd say 300 spine would be your best bet. 

[whacker1]

I have the gamer

So, when you get home check out whether there is a number marked after the word "gamer"  should be in the same font and size and color based on the current arrow models.

[lamrith]

Finally home and opened my FOC spreadsheet looking at the arrow combinations.
ME: 6'4", measured 31" draw.
BOW: Carbon knight, 60#, 30.5" draw
Arrows: Sudden Impact 300spine 30.625" (AMO method), these measure 32" with broadheads

His arrows might be an inch long, but as mentioned much will depend on his rest placement and comfort with broadhead in proximity of support hand. 

Muleyman did you also measure to the tip of the knock or the valley?  FOC/arrow measurement is shown in attached picture.  Method2 I think is what GT shows, but Method1 is more standard measurement?

[Muleyman27]

Hey whacker1 I have the gamer 350 and lamrith I am measuring from the tip of the knock when I measure.

[whacker1]

Hey whacker1 I have the gamer 350 and lamrith I am measuring from the tip of the knock when I measure.

I would bet your spine is too weak, which is why you have the frowny face.

When or if you invest the money in the .300 spine you will have a heavier arrow as you will be picking up about 18-19 grains in the arrow shaft, which will also skew your FOC a little bit.  I would be looking for a 125 grain head and possibly an insert. 

Sorry for the bad news, but I think you got the answers you were looking for or at least pointed in the right direction.

[Muleyman27]

Hey whacker1 I have the gamer 350 and lamrith I am measuring from the tip of the knock when I measure.

I would bet your spine is too weak, which is why you have the frowny face.

When or if you invest the money in the .300 spine you will have a heavier arrow as you will be picking up about 18-19 grains in the arrow shaft, which will also skew your FOC a little bit.  I would be looking for a 125 grain head and possibly an insert. 

Sorry for the bad news, but I think you got the answers you were looking for or at least pointed in the right direction.

Thanks for the advice I will definitely be getting some new arrows soon. Sucks tho I have 2 1/2 doz arrows and 6 broadheads that won't get used anymore I wish Steve at Steve's archery in walla walla would have sold me the right stuff. I told him I wanted an arrow that was the right length, spine. Which broadheads for a good foc ect. Oh well I'm just gonna start asking questions on this site first before i go to the pro shop. Everyone here is a lot more knowledgable and willing to share and help out. This site is awesome!!!

[whacker1]

at that length 2 1/2 doz will be able to be sold as they can be cut down for those of us that have shorter draw lengths.  I can make some handy work out of those in a hurry.  Let me know if you get ready to sell them. 

I would focus on RadSav's tuning suggestions, you might find other issues other than just spine.  I know that i have foudn other issues with my tuning over the years and will be doing some of his suggestions in the near future to improve the tune. 

[SGTDuffman]

Like whacker said, you may be able to recoup some of your losses. The long a** draw length of yours means almost anyone else can still cut them down to use them, so you should be able to sell them.

[lamrith]

If you want to try 300spine without breaking the bank go to Sportmans warehouse and pickup a pack of Vital Impact 300's, they are a nice Goldtip arrow rebadged for sportsmans...  $38/6 with nocks, and inserts.  Sportmans will cut them to length for you free of charge, least the puyallup store did for me. 

30.625" AMO length and 100Grn heads mine weigh 400Grn with a 11.43%FOC.  I added Nockturnals and upped to a 125G head to maintain 12.45% FOC and was 434grn.  Std Nocks with 125Grn heads are 425Grn with 13.67% FOC.
FOC spreadsheet

If you are not going to use illuminated nocks then keep your broadheads and just use them on the 300's.  100 or 125grn they will both give you good FOC.  And even if they are 100's and you plan to use illuminated you could buy Goldtip insert weights as a backup plan to tinker with FOC without buying lots of broadheads or removing and gluing inserts.  If you lived closer I would let you borrow mine or come buy and try different weights out and shoot a bit.

Maybe take bow in to sportsmans and have them recommend a proper length for you as well?

[Muleyman27]

So I finally got some new arrows I got the same victory rip gamer arrows but in the 300 spine. I have the savora del mastro 100gr. Using the amo method my foc came out to 13.9% with a regular knock. And 12.29% with my nockturnal lighted knock. now time to practice!!