legal ?

[MtnMuley]

I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait 

That's what I'm talking about right there.

You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. 

What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime.

Exactly!  Why step on someones spot.

So putting out bait and a camera means that other guys won't hunt my spot? Sweet! I am just going to put 10 cameras out so I can have a whole basin to myself!

I am exaggerating here but I think you see my point. Would I set up and sit over another guy's bait site, heck no. Would I even set up with a few hundred yards, most likely not but am I going to leave the area entirely because some guy has a camera and some salt out? Nope. 

I get what your saying. I would just wander off to another spot.  Luckily few go where I go so for me I doubt it will ever be an issue.  But we both know what SOME would do!!

Not trying to argue at all and I am the same way in that I don't step on toes. Its just that with the amount of cameras and bait sites these days, if you left the area of every bait site you found you could really hose yourself. I also tend to hunt away from where most people go and almost all my camera encounters are well before I get to my hunting area or on my hike out. 

Boy, that's pretty condracticting.

[Bob33]

I thought about starting a new topic, but I think this fits in with this one.

So there is certain orchard in E. WA where the bears year after year are destroying trees. I have been invited to hunt there by the owner.
Would that be considered baiting or hunting over bait? I at first thought not, but I am now questioning it.
I did not plant the trees and they were not put there for attracting any wildlife, but owners report bear there on a weekly basis at least.

Is any of this true? It doesn't sound like it to me.

' "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.'

[MtnMuley]

I thought about starting a new topic, but I think this fits in with this one.

So there is certain orchard in E. WA where the bears year after year are destroying trees. I have been invited to hunt there by the owner.
Would that be considered baiting or hunting over bait? I at first thought not, but I am now questioning it.
I did not plant the trees and they were not put there for attracting any wildlife, but owners report bear there on a weekly basis at least.

You can hunt in the orchard all you want.  Happens all the time here.  If it were me, I'd call the local warden and tell him the situation.  He is probably already aware, as bears in orchards have always been issues here.

[vandeman17]

I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait 

That's what I'm talking about right there.

You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. 

What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime.

Exactly!  Why step on someones spot.

So putting out bait and a camera means that other guys won't hunt my spot? Sweet! I am just going to put 10 cameras out so I can have a whole basin to myself!

I am exaggerating here but I think you see my point. Would I set up and sit over another guy's bait site, heck no. Would I even set up with a few hundred yards, most likely not but am I going to leave the area entirely because some guy has a camera and some salt out? Nope. 

I get what your saying. I would just wander off to another spot.  Luckily few go where I go so for me I doubt it will ever be an issue.  But we both know what SOME would do!!

Not trying to argue at all and I am the same way in that I don't step on toes. Its just that with the amount of cameras and bait sites these days, if you left the area of every bait site you found you could really hose yourself. I also tend to hunt away from where most people go and almost all my camera encounters are well before I get to my hunting area or on my hike out. 

Boy, that's pretty condracticting.

How so? Pretty cut and dry 

[NINEX19]

You can hunt in the orchard all you want.  Happens all the time here.  If it were me, I'd call the local warden and tell him the situation.  He is probably already aware, as bears in orchards have always been issues here.

I am from the "wet" side, so was not aware of hunting in this type of situation, as I have never gone for bear in E. WA. Its not like it is in the "woods". This does attract bears in a more populated area.

This is a genuine question. From the report of the owner, it will almost be like shooting fish in a barrel. (which has its own "ethical" issues for another thread)

[h20hunter]

I'd hunt an orchard all day long. However, if you start picking up apples and making a pile in front of your blind or stand you are baiting. Apples fall from trees naturaly. Hunt it up.

[h20hunter]

Also, my ethics are just fine with shooting a bear that is hitting an orchard on a regular basis. No different than a food plot or deer in an 'falfa field.

[MtnMuley]

You can hunt in the orchard all you want.  Happens all the time here.  If it were me, I'd call the local warden and tell him the situation.  He is probably already aware, as bears in orchards have always been issues here.

I am from the "wet" side, so was not aware of hunting in this type of situation, as I have never gone for bear in E. WA. Its not like it is in the "woods". This does attract bears in a more populated area.

This is a genuine question. From the report of the owner, it will almost be like shooting fish in a barrel. (which has its own "ethical" issues for another thread)

Sometimes certain orchards will draw bears, sometimes they won't. Depends on their food sources and with this year a lot of their other food sources drying up early, I'd guess the orchards will get hit pretty hard.  As far as ethical goes, to each their own.  As long as it's legal, do what you want is the common theme.

[tgomez]

This is a scary deal...  In reality it would not be worth the hell gamies would put you through!!!

For sure now that you know its there. Remember you have to PROVE your innocent in the court of law.  Although it may seem like no big deal, a gamie catching you near it would cite you.

Just not worth it. I dont agree with the stupidity of it, but I would move away 1 for the bait and 2 someone else is there..

I thought it was INNOCENT until proven GUILTY?

[RadSav]

This is a scary deal...  In reality it would not be worth the hell gamies would put you through!!!

For sure now that you know its there. Remember you have to PROVE your innocent in the court of law.  Although it may seem like no big deal, a gamie catching you near it would cite you.

Just not worth it. I dont agree with the stupidity of it, but I would move away 1 for the bait and 2 someone else is there..

I thought it was INNOCENT until proven GUILTY?

You must not know anyone who has been wrongfully charged with a game violation!   

[tgomez]

No I just know the law my friend, and you don't prove innocence you prove guilt plain and simple. And your right I don't hunt with people who commit game violations! You must not know the law.

[RadSav]

Many of us here know the law and reality! 

Unfortunately too often in this state walking on a paved road, just like you do every day, can be a sign of guilt if an animal has been poached there in the past 24 hours.  Even with the witness of your employer, that you were at work during the poaching, you are still guilty until proven innocent.  Simply by walking a road like you do every single day!  Witnesses to the contrary of guilt and absolutely zero evidence ends up not being seen as innocent until proven guilty.  If the officer assumes your guilt you are guilty. No more investigation, case closed, end of story, we got 'em!  You must then hire an attorney, empty your bank account, get a second mortgage on your house and "Prove Your Innocence" in the court of law!  Innocent until proven guilty is a wives tale told to children to make them sleep better at night

[Bob33]

For the most part, you are innocent until charged in our country. Then you are guilty until proven innocent, the pursuit of which can cost you dearly.

[Bean Counter]

Integrity?

Huh? All you're required to do is show your hunting license. Why would you volunteer information that could be used against you, even though you did nothing wrong?

+1. Shut up and lawyer up! Especially if they're just out on a money making binge. 

The WDFW officer at my hunters safety class said  "I like writing tickets" 

[RadSav]

The WDFW officer at my hunters safety class said  "I like writing tickets" 

We had a gamie from Duvall tell us that ALL hunters are breaking the law.  And it was his responsibility to figure out just which law we were breaking.  That's one heck of a way to go about your job, don't you think?  An hour later he gave up searching our vehicle, checking our bows and wasting our time.  As he left he told us he didn't want to see us up there again.  What?!?

In that case I guess we were guilty until really guilty!

Another time up Stevens Pass back when there was only a one bear limit I took the wife bear hunting after I had tagged out.  Gamie and Gamie junior stopped us on the road headed in to our spot.  Both badgered the wife for over half an hour.  Saying things like, "You can't really shoot that gun, can you?  Just admit you are just along so your husband can kill a second bear.  You know that .257 Roberts is not a lethal weapon for hunting bear, we should confiscate that right here right now!..."  The wife to this day remains mad about that stop!

No doubt in my mind that if we had a bear in the truck I would have been found guilty of shooting it somehow!


To be fair - While these King County and SnoCo harassments are just a whisper of the many similar run ins we have had, our bad experiences have really only been in the Westside between Hwy 2 and I-90.  Gamies around Lake Wenatchee, Colville, PeEll, Crab Creek, Klickitat, Vancouver, Winston and Cougar have been rather outstanding.  The guy out in Klickitat spent a lot of time with me making sure I knew exactly where the res boundary was since my map was marked wrong. And he didn't do that to keep me out of trouble.  He did that because he thought I would have better luck finding turkey there.  Because of that gamie I now have a killer turkey spot in Klickitat!

But the reality of guilty until proven innocent is very real today.  Of the people I know who have been wrongfully charged in this state there was zero investigation before being found guilty by the officers.  Each and every one was a simple case of wrong place/wrong time.  And in each of those cases there was clear evidence and credible witnesses to the fact the officers made a mistake.  It was not until a check was written to a hot shot lawyer that any investigation was conducted.  Not one single penny of those lawyer costs were ever reimbursed!  If that's not Guilty until proven innocent, what is?

Though it sure would be nice to be a young know it all and live in a world where fairy tales were true