Getting a dog Steady to wing, shot and fall what are your methods?

[JODakota]

I'm really leaning that way hard.  It would be nice to have the bragging right to a couple of ribbons, but at the end of the day what I really want is a good bird dog.  Frankly it's also about finances.  I don't know if I can swing another month of training, and still hunt the Dakotas. 

Send her to Montana. The Dakota's aren't going anywhere.

[wildweeds]

Here's a quote from 1954 German shorthair national winner Amatuer handler Thomas Schwertfeger "Those who train with a blank pistol are not training anything" Tommy was one heck of a guy,old and crusty when I met him in 2003.He was nicknamed the "Pigeon Magician" by his peers in the early 60's as he was one of the first to start the training process with pigeons.The man needed nothing but pigeons and a hunk of stiff rope to make a top notch competitor.The funniest thing I saw from Tommy was for him to throw his arms in the air and exclaim"I ain't got enough life left in me to argue with a dumb SOB like you" and walk away from a pro Labrador trainer. Killing is the positive reinforcement that will gain ground by double when it comes to training.His buddy John Capalino subscribed to the same old school training methods and his quote was " It's the same story as it was 400 years ago, the dog will point em or knock em,start killing the pointed birds and the knocking will become non existant". These are words from guys who were training/fiddling with dogs for 30 years before the invention of an Ecollar/release launchers/electronic backing dogs.They developed and learned how to do it the old fashioned way.If I could go back in time and talk to but one professional birddog man from yesteryear it would be Herman F  Smith.

[addicted2hunting]

Ya blank guns have their place... I use my shotgun, cause I haven't bought a blank gun. Old school is fine but with our new gadgets and advancement in dog physiology why not use it to your advantage. Also too I know old school guys who would shoot a dog that didn't make the cut in training. They would beat dog with flushing whips to break dogs and all sorts of stuff that would put you in jail now. Atleast in the German versatile world that is. I know a specific German who was quite known for his harsh training but was also key in making my breed what it is today. Trials and other stuff I'm not sure as I don't know that end of dog stuff. I know working puppies on blank guns are a great way for intro to gun...

[jetjockey]

Addicted.  I know a few of those old school guys as well.  Most will tell you they would never go back to the old ways of training.  I hunt with one on occasion, he was a Pro, and so was his dad.  From a young age it was his job to "cull" the drop outs.  You don't want to hear the stories because they will make you cringe.  He will tell you he's much softer today than he was back the , and believe me, he and t soft now.  He will also tell you they shot a lot of birds over dogs in training back then.  Unfortunately, those birds were rarely in season when they were killed, but those old timers didn't care.  I've been fortunate enough to see a bunch of different Pros work dogs, and some dams good amateurs as well.  You can get a LOT of work done with a blank gun.  If I had to chose between a Pro who worked almost entirely on killed released birds with very few wild birds thrown in, and a Pro who worked dogs on almost entirely wild birds with a few killed birds thrown in, I know who I'd choose, no questions asked.  The key is getting the dog to enjoy the find, and not just the retrieve.  Many, if not most AF Pointers and Setters never retrieve a bird, yet they are ridiculously nice bird dogs.  How do you think that happens since they may never be allowed to retrieve?

[addicted2hunting]

Addicted.  I know a few of those old school guys as well.  Most will tell you they would never go back to the old ways of training.  I hunt with one on occasion, he was a Pro, and so was his dad.  From a young age it was his job to "cull" the drop outs.  You don't want to hear the stories because they will make you cringe.  He will tell you he's much softer today than he was back the , and believe me, he and t soft now.  He will also tell you they shot a lot of birds over dogs in training back then.  Unfortunately, those birds were rarely in season when they were killed, but those old timers didn't care.  I've been fortunate enough to see a bunch of different Pros work dogs, and some dams good amateurs as well.  You can get a LOT of work done with a blank gun.  If I had to chose between a Pro who worked almost entirely on killed released birds with very few wild birds thrown in, and a Pro who worked dogs on almost entirely wild birds with a few killed birds thrown in, I know who I'd choose, no questions asked.  The key is getting the dog to enjoy the find, and not just the retrieve.  Many, if not most AF Pointers and Setters never retrieve a bird, yet they are ridiculously nice bird dogs.  How do you think that happens since they may never be allowed to retrieve?

Ya for sure. I don't think I could even watch if a guy were to train the way of stories I've heard... I mean being a little rough with a really tough dog is one thing but there is a point where it's just way over board. Ya you can get a lot done with a blank gun for sure but it's inevitable that your gonna have to go to the shotgun. But a blank gun is nice also for legality purposes when guys training in public and city limits and stuff don't wanna get in trouble. Ya I'm sure you've seen a ton of pros as much as you travel. Yeah I agree with the find and retrieve deal. Makes sense. Like I've been taught to not let the dog retrieve any birds and you go out and retrieve the bird. I like the idea of giving a dead one to the dog right after vs going to pick up the one you shot. I'm gonna have to try that out.

[constructeur]

Ha, how's a guy supposed to train for AKC hunt tests if he shouldn't be using a blank gun now  for the record he's the kind of goin' dude that isn't even bothered by fireworks...It's just nice to train for what he'll be seeing, I don't want to get pinched by little piddly crap, and blank guns are legal in this modern day and age of shooting ordinances....

Here's the bottom line: a couple of amateurs took a fire breathing dragon (damed by a NGSPA national futurity champ) that would wrench your back dragging you around a field in May, to a dog that will handsomely point a few days later. No mean training techniques, just crisp and succinct corrections.

I'm about halfway done force fetching the dog at this time. This season I'll be stoning birds and having him retrieve to hand; no jive, no keep away, no dropping winged birds 10' from me.