Getting a dog Steady to wing, shot and fall what are your methods?

[addicted2hunting]

Some interesting methods here on breaking to wind and shot. What do you think about the methods used in the perfect start / perfect finish DVD? I've been using this dvd and so far with good results but my dog is not that far along to break her to wing and shot. I haver her half way broke to the gun, but 3 week in AK for work has set me back a bit. Been training by myself so I let her chase the bird after I release it, but only if she has a solid point on it, then when she's about 100yd away I fire in the air. Will shorten the distance that I shoot over time. will this method set me back to breaking her to wing?

Yeah I love perfection kennels methods... I found it hard though with a dog with insane prey drive. I used there way of whoa training though. I think with a softer dog there ways are perfect.
With the shooting im not sure on that. One of these guys would be better at answering that. I think imo that once the dog has shown to have plenty of prey drive on birds it's time to stop the chase all together. I start it with stop to flush training. Letting the dog continue to chase only prolongs the steadiness training.

[jetjockey]

I don't agree that a "fireball" dog makes whoa training difficult.  A "high strung" dog is what makes whoa training difficult.  That's why guys breed for dogs that are bidable.  High strung dogs are much more difficult to "reign in" making the breaking process more difficult.

[addicted2hunting]

I don't agree that a "fireball" dog makes whoa training difficult.  A "high strung" dog is what makes whoa training difficult.  That's why guys breed for dogs that are bidable.  High strung dogs are much more difficult to "reign in" making the breaking process more difficult.

Not whoa training, heel training. Cause the dog always wants to forge ahead.

[jetjockey]

IMO it's the same. 

[addicted2hunting]

I don't agree that a "fireball" dog makes whoa training difficult.  A "high strung" dog is what makes whoa training difficult.  That's why guys breed for dogs that are bidable.  High strung dogs are much more difficult to "reign in" making the breaking process more difficult.

Not whoa training, heel training. Cause the dog always wants to forge ahead.

But I don't know what you have to do with trials in form of heel or what you prefer with heel in hunting. In navhda we have a heel course we have to go through and in hrc it needs good heeling also so I am pretty picky on heeling.

[addicted2hunting]

IMO it's the same.

How is heel and whoa the same?

[addicted2hunting]

Whoa I found really simple and easy for me but the heel is where I struggled cause he wanted to hunt soo bad. But yeah cedar is on the further side of biddable... He is incredibly intelligent but he is always pushing the limits of what he can get away with. I personally like that in a dog.

[RC3]

I can't stop my dog in her tracks at 50 yards without an ecollar or birds present. Its not gonna happen!  And she's an FC, 1 point away from her AFC, and 1 point away from her GFC (I thought she had that but the trial secretary didn't register the trial she would have finished in as a Grand trial, so due to a paper work glitch, I'm still waiting on that one).  Sometimes you can get too hung up on obedience and yard work.

Shows me how tough it is to train for those titles.

[Shannon]

Here is a pic of what I consider "stylish" versatile dogs. Can't get that tail any higher though:)

[AspenBud]

Whoa I found really simple and easy for me but the heel is where I struggled cause he wanted to hunt soo bad. But yeah cedar is on the further side of biddable... He is incredibly intelligent but he is always pushing the limits of what he can get away with. I personally like that in a dog.

I've effectively given up on heel. Mostly because every single Pointer I've owned wanted to more or less pull like a draft horse, some worse than others, and no amount of coercion was/is going to change that.

I like whoa simply because it's handy to use like "hup" is with a spaniel or lab. It's worthless when a dog is on point however, especially at range, in my opinion. It's great for stopping a dog in its tracks before running into a road or to just get to it and leash it up.

[jetjockey]

I can't stop my dog in her tracks at 50 yards without an ecollar or birds present. Its not gonna happen!  And she's an FC, 1 point away from her AFC, and 1 point away from her GFC (I thought she had that but the trial secretary didn't register the trial she would have finished in as a Grand trial, so due to a paper work glitch, I'm still waiting on that one).  Sometimes you can get too hung up on obedience and yard work.

Shows me how tough it is to train for those titles.

Yes and no.  There's a happy balance between tightening the screws too tight and making a robot, and doing enough that the dog responds, but still has the confidence, style, and drive to win trials.  My dog might not whoa at 50+ yards, but she won't blow a back or keep going on a stop to flush.  Her bird work is very very good.

[addicted2hunting]

Here is a pic of what I consider "stylish" versatile dogs. Can't get that tail any higher though:)

I do like that pic!:).  I like the flat look myself yard stick on the back flat.

[addicted2hunting]

This is one of cedarwoods dogs and this is my favorite stance for style...

[addicted2hunting]

I can't stop my dog in her tracks at 50 yards without an ecollar or birds present. Its not gonna happen!  And she's an FC, 1 point away from her AFC, and 1 point away from her GFC (I thought she had that but the trial secretary didn't register the trial she would have finished in as a Grand trial, so due to a paper work glitch, I'm still waiting on that one).  Sometimes you can get too hung up on obedience and yard work.

Shows me how tough it is to train for those titles.

Yes and no.  There's a happy balance between tightening the screws too tight and making a robot, and doing enough that the dog responds, but still has the confidence, style, and drive to win trials.  My dog might not whoa at 50+ yards, but she won't blow a back or keep going on a stop to flush.  Her bird work is very very good.

Very good that the bird work is tight. But if done correctly you can have a dog that reliably stops on whoa without touching any of its style or making it a robot. That's why you don't train whoa in a bird field....it's yard work. Dogs learn by association. If you do pressure in the bird field it will learn to associate that pressure with the field. Same concept with pressure when the bird is on the ground. You will get a dog who flags or blinks birds.

[ribka]

taking my ugly dog ( griff) for a walk on property last night. She found a covey of about 15 huns. She held point well.  She is 9 months old and am working with pigeons. Considering taking her to RJ for a month before season. She has great prey drive. She does not look as pretty as a pointer, setter , brit or gsp but think she will do ok this year

A lot of good advice on here from the experienced guys and appreciate you guys taking the time to share your advice:tup: