Devils Advocate.(Indian affairs)

[mossback91]

I'd never confront said Violaters as I may have led you to believe in my earlier post, but if you can put a name to the problem, It would go farther than "some Indian".

Even if we only went as far as "red toyota lic# XYZ123" still puts a name (pin point's) the problem. Then were not just a bunch of pissed off whitey's pickin on the poor lil Indian's.

Who you call'in lil indian? there lil whiteboy?

[buck470]

Just a figure of speech cuzzin.

[Alchase]

What really gets me mad is the WDFW and Fish and Game act like nothing is happining and if they just ignore it incidents like the Clockum herd, and countless other situations will just go away. 

This politically correct position is going to allow all of the deer and elk herds to be decimated before anything is done to address this. 

[muleyguy]

"This politically correct position is going to allow all of the deer and elk herds to be decimated before anything is done to address this"

it has nothing to do with political correctness;  the court has upheld the right of indians to hunt and fish on usual and accustomed land.  The WDFW cannot do much legally about it.

you have to attack it other ways, like gating, PR campaign's

[Pathfinder101]

Hmm... how 'bout "culturally aware" Hunter Education programs on the rez?  If we all really believe this problem is reaching critical mass, then what really needs to change are attitudes, not just laws.  "Tightening up the game laws on the rez" is like trying to institute a handgun ban in Compton.  Of course it's not gonna fix the problem right away, but it could help.  If you figure that one tribal member with no bag limit can decimate the breeding males in an entire drainage, then just getting through to a few young people might make a difference. 
We are seeing this in Iraq right now.  The kids that were 9 and 10 years old when we invaded are now becoming young adults.  Those kids were supposed to be the next round of insurgent fighters.  Instead (we hope) they will go to work or college and become productive members of a free economy.  A lot of the guys that were there in '03 and '04 came home and said the same thing:  this problem will not be fixed with this generation, but the next.
If this problem really is as bad as it appears to be, then it might be worth the time and expense for WDFW to put together a class like this.  I for one, as a Hunter Education Instructor would be glad to volunteer my time to instruct.

Remember how many more idiots were out there in the woods 30 years ago than there are now?  Something changed...

 

[Wenatcheejay]

Heres a Devils advocate thought for you all.    I wonder what an outsider (non hunter sitting in their living room in Wenatchee just for instance)  thinks of someone blasting a buck on the winterrange, when it is their legal right to do so.  For those not being able to follow my thought process, Govenors tags/raffle tags versus tribal hunting.   

Don't get me wrong, I want one of those something fierce.  its just always good to self evaluate instead of pointing ones fingers all the time.

Going back to the original post to the thread, I got my hands on the "Reel News" December issue. I passed out the article on the Clockum Elk and the Tribes. To say the least thus far five people have been quite upset. When I talk about if it is equal to special tags and raffles my unscientific survey says no.

So there you go.

[heavy hauler]

tribal "hunting"   and gov tags are not even close to the same.when someone buys a  gov tag, someone is actually contributing to the state($$$$)  as for the tribal poachers they are purely takers.

[farmin4u_98948]

We would really be in a mess if more Natives hunted. The misconceptions about Native people are often funny and yet sad. I dont remember what basketball team played White Swan at the state A tournament  but I remember that some of the parents from this westside school went out to the rez for a drive to see where the opposition school was. Of these westsiders the only exposure to Natives was the casino's. What they saw was the reservation is quite trashy to say the least. Non Natives do not understand the different values and lifestyles. Why do people chose to live this way? I have lived my whole life on the rez and work daily with employs of the B I A. Sorry no good answer. How do people live their life in the inner cities, surrounded by crime, never leave, and are trapped by poverty. Why dont they just leave town and start over. Sorry, No good answer. How many Non Native hunters know that the Yakama Nation has their own non-hunting reserve west of White Swan with stiff penalties for violations. The list of closed hunting areas grows, often to slowly but it does have areas added to it where Native Yakamas can no longer hunt. Oak Creek is now listed. Sanford Pasture is also listed. I know there are others but I dont have the list in front of me at this time. The Tribal issue is never going to go away. Like it or not. It was a treaty that has been changed by judges over time so that it now is quite different in intent from its original design. So is our great constitution. Do you think that the founding fathers would like the idea of no prayer in schools, No nativity scenes on public property, Gov money paying for the murder of the unborn. The courts have twisted this issue and pitted the two sides against each  other so that the only communication between the two sides is often hostile and just down right unneighborly. EDUCATION is the answer and the future.
Once again. Married to a Native, Living on the rez     98948          

[Red Dawg]

i somewhat agree with you as I live close to you know quite a few native Americans. They do in fact still hunt oakcreek, I saw them up there less two months ago and yes they were shooting deer and elk, I think they had one of each in there truck. The natives that i know mostly fallow the tribal hunting laws that you speak of but that is just a handful of them that I went to school with. I also know a few of them that take white guys up there to hunt and I dont that is right either. They also poach out of season and have him go get there animal where ever they have shot it. I think it is looked at so hard because there is nothing any of us can do about it except bitch. I guess I get a little bit pissed when I hear or see it happening, the one that gets me the most pissed is the rez cop that had about 10 bucks dispayed on his boat along hi way 22 a couple of winters ago. that is the kind of stuff that makes me angry.

[farmin4u_98948]

Tribal Officer Walsey is really a good guy. Ask him sometime about all the deer hides hanging on his old boat. He does hunt for elders and as far as I know does not waste anything other than his hides are not left in the woods. Of course the racks and sculls have to be put on top of his trailer for the birds... That one always makes me laugh. I have seen him spend lots of time on the hill behind my house working with the Drug Task Force catching the wacky weed growers in cornfields. He is a good neighbor to us.

[logger]

I have seen more than most on this sight as I am in the woods damn near every day, both eastside and west side. Native pride so far I haven't seen it. and if you want names I have them also, damn near evey time we work in the cowiche I have a run in with the same bunch. Just ask boneaddict he will know excataly who i mean.

[Red Dawg]

you are probably right that he is a good guy, but you can see why it that kind of stuff makes people angry. Apparently he has decided to be more discrete about it in recent years since I haven't seen any for quite a while. there is also a guy in goldendale that does the same thing. I guess if they would keep it to themselves then maybe it would not upset so many people.

[Pathfinder101]

Logger, I think that was farmin4u's point when he said "We'd really be in trouble if more natives hunted".  He is right.  It's not even a bunch of people causing the problem.  I'll say it again... WDFW should invest in a Native Hunter Education Program for the young people in the tribe who are interested in hunting.  Explain things like carrying capacity, breeding populations, wintering ranges, etc...
It's not like we are trying to reach a ton of people.  Anyone who has spent much time on the rez will tell you, it's only a handful that hunt seriously, and some of those that do really are doing it for substenance/elders/ceremonial feasts etc...  Start educating some of these young kids so they can see the impact they can have on wildlife and it might make a difference.  Maybe not right away, but eventually.

[huntnphool]

I'll say it again... WDFW should invest in a Native Hunter Education Program for the young people in the tribe who are interested in hunting.  Explain things like carrying capacity, breeding populations, wintering ranges, etc...

I can appreciate your desire to come up with a solution however I have to respectfully disagree,  I think it would be a terrable idea. A program like that would undoubtedly education and interest to those that likely would never have been turned on to hunting. The problem I see is what happens once these new hunters finally realize that the seasons and regulations apply to everyone except them, and that they are basically untouchable. I believe the issues we have been discussing would increase exponentially

[Pathfinder101]

Well, you could be right about that.  Something's gotta change though..