I'm frustrated.....any advice?

[Hoythunter]

I know this topic has been covered a bazillion and half times but I'm about ready to put a "for free" sign on my Remington 700 ML....

Been to the range 3 weeks in a row and have now shot Hornady 300g, Shocker 250 gr, and Rem Accutip.  My 100 yard groups are ugly, I'm talking everywhere.  I run patches after every single shot and am shooting off a bench.  I'm shooting trip 7, have now tried 80, 90 & 100 grains.  Rem #11 caps.  I'm spraying bullets everywhere!!  Changed sights even (rear peep).  The guy at the range that's been helping me is even shrugging his shoulders; he knows his way around these in-lines and is scratching his head.

I'm going to give Barnes 290 a go and if that doesn't work out?  I'm new at this MZ thing so I'm not above advice or other thoughts.  I've been shooting guns my entire life and a half decent shot with open sights but my lord, this is getting crazy.   

[HUNTNORTHWEST]

Sounds like to me you have some sort of fowling going on down the barrel. Copper fowling can cause bullets to spray all over the place. You need to clean the crud out of muzzleloaders.

[SemperFidelis97]

I agree with Northwestwenz get some nitro bore, or another chemical to break down that copper fowling.  I have to do it every couple years in my hunting rifles as well, I am meticulous about cleaning them, but it still builds up in the rifling.

[jrebel]

Where do you live and shoot.  Maybe another muzzy hunter can meet you and help you out.   Could be many factors involved......

[Bill W]

If you are able to push a wad of brass thru the barrel from one end to the other that might get some of the fouling out.

[Hoythunter]

I got some new clearer at Sportsmans in my way home; I spent a couple hours cleaning the heck out of it last weekend and am going to do it again after shooting another 1.5 boxes today...  Thanks, keep the suggestions coming!

[hollymaster]

And get rid of the Remington #11's. Bottom of the percussion caps, lowest "heat". 

[PyroBlack]

I got some new clearer at Sportsmans in my way home; I spent a couple hours cleaning the heck out of it last weekend and am going to do it again after shooting another 1.5 boxes today...  Thanks, keep the suggestions coming!

You can spend 10 hours cleaning and not do much good, if you are using the wrong cleaner(s). Make sure those patches wear a bore brush too, not a jag.

Also, your 777 powder may be contaminated and/or old. That will make 100 yard groups go haywire too.

[Hoythunter]

And get rid of the Remington #11's. Bottom of the percussion caps, lowest "heat". 

Is this why I'm finding a lot of powder residue after each shot?  Which caps would you recommend?  Thanks

[Sabotloader]

And get rid of the Remington #11's. Bottom of the percussion caps, lowest "heat". 

Is this why I'm finding a lot of powder residue after each shot?  Which caps would you recommend?  Thanks

Rem 700's are normally very accurate rifles.  I had 3 of them and the most common thing i have found with them is the how the barrel fits in the stock.  The older Rems were fully bedded in the barrel channel and were really never a problem the new longer barreld Rems were suppose to be free floating but ofthe the barrel would touch the stock along the run in different places creating different pressures on the barrel as the barrel heated. If you have one of the newer ones with the 26" barrel see if you can run a dollor bill beteen the barrel and the stock all the way down to very close to the reciever.

CCI #11 Magnum caps a very reliable - but very difficult to find right now.  The best cap I have found is the RWS Dynamit Noble 1075+.  Sportsman's usually has them and they can be found in many other places.

[shorthair15]

get some rws number 11 caps. try sportsman warehouse if in a pinch get the cci magnum's. i only use the rws caps.

[Utah]

 I could barley hit a pie plate at 100yds . Then I got a peep site.  3"inch groups or less is the norm now. usually 2"groups at 100. Never seen a Power belt not shoot.  295's and 777

[Hoythunter]

I could barley hit a pie plate at 100yds . Then I got a peep site.  3"inch groups or less is the norm now. usually 2"groups at 100. Never seen a Power belt not shoot.  295's and 777

Just took my peep off and tried a tru glow back sight; same net result.  I suppose something I could've overlooked were caps; do different #11's make that big of a difference?  I'm going to order new caps and give one more bullet a try, after that..??  Crazy, never would've that I could group 6 arrows at 100 yds 3x better than this muzzy. 

[usmc74]

Is the hammer inside the bolt hanging up?  I had to dis-assemble mine and clean the guts and lube it pretty often.

Mine last year was shooting great with 300gr SST, and 100gr powder.

You anywhere near North Bend?

[huntnphool]

PM sent

[Hoythunter]

Is the hammer inside the bolt hanging up?  I had to dis-assemble mine and clean the guts and lube it pretty often.

Mine last year was shooting great with 300gr SST, and 100gr powder.

You anywhere near North Bend?

No issues with the hammer or hang fires, it's a smooth shooting machine.  I'm happy with the setup, until I look through my scope and see where my shot hit!  I'm in Spokane

[HUNTNORTHWEST]

Is the hammer inside the bolt hanging up?  I had to dis-assemble mine and clean the guts and lube it pretty often.

Mine last year was shooting great with 300gr SST, and 100gr powder.

You anywhere near North Bend?

No issues with the hammer or hang fires, it's a smooth shooting machine.  I'm happy with the setup, until I look through my scope and see where my shot hit!  I'm in Spokane

You have a scope on your muzzle loader?

[kentrek]

Is the hammer inside the bolt hanging up?  I had to dis-assemble mine and clean the guts and lube it pretty often.

Mine last year was shooting great with 300gr SST, and 100gr powder.

You anywhere near North Bend?

No issues with the hammer or hang fires, it's a smooth shooting machine.  I'm happy with the setup, until I look through my scope and see where my shot hit!  I'm in Spokane

You have a scope on your muzzle loader?

he's referring to his spotting "scope"

[usmc74]

Barrel corrosion?  Ever fired a "double load"?  Stainless or carbon steel?

Mine (54 cal) had a barrel that had a part of the barrel had no resistance during loading.  I bought another barrel (50 cal), and now it shoots sweet again.

BTW, the load I gave before was using real black powder, 2F.

Ever want to get rid of it, let me know.  The guy that used mine wants to get one.

[Hoythunter]

Barrel corrosion?  Ever fired a "double load"?  Stainless or carbon steel?

Mine (54 cal) had a barrel that had a part of the barrel had no resistance during loading.  I bought another barrel (50 cal), and now it shoots sweet again.

BTW, the load I gave before was using real black powder, 2F.

Ever want to get rid of it, let me know.  The guy that used mine wants to get one.

I sure wouldn't think the barrel has been damaged but I'm running out of theories...  I've got new caps and new Barnes in order, I'm hopeful my 4th setup nets better results

[Lucky1]

Pyro asked if you powder was old or damp. Maybe try some new powder.

[Hoythunter]

Pyro asked if you powder was old or damp. Maybe try some new powder.

It was a brand sealed trip 7 FF?  I suppose crazier things have happened, at this point I'm trying to make one change per time at range so I'm not skipping over anything...and to save my wallet

[Vo2max]

I know this topic has been covered a bazillion and half times but I'm about ready to put a "for free" sign on my Remington 700 ML....

Been to the range 3 weeks in a row and have now shot Hornady 300g, Shocker 250 gr, and Rem Accutip.  My 100 yard groups are ugly, I'm talking everywhere.  I run patches after every single shot and am shooting off a bench.  I'm shooting trip 7, have now tried 80, 90 & 100 grains.  Rem #11 caps.  I'm spraying bullets everywhere!!  Changed sights even (rear peep).  The guy at the range that's been helping me is even shrugging his shoulders; he knows his way around these in-lines and is scratching his head.

I'm going to give Barnes 290 a go and if that doesn't work out?  I'm new at this MZ thing so I'm not above advice or other thoughts.  I've been shooting guns my entire life and a half decent shot with open sights but my lord, this is getting crazy.   

Before you lose all hope; my TC wouldn't eat anything but 325g lead with 2 pyrodex pellets and I use rem #11 caps. Groups EVERYWHERE until I made the change and now, shoots very well out beyond 150yds with tru glo sight. Try heavier bullet and play with powder level (2 or even 3 pellets). I'm no expert but that's what it took for mine to shoot. Now, I'll only use what works and am confident in it. Much like finding a load for a rifle but ML can be a fickle beast. Best of luck.

[huntnphool]

I know this topic has been covered a bazillion and half times but I'm about ready to put a "for free" sign on my Remington 700 ML....

Been to the range 3 weeks in a row and have now shot Hornady 300g, Shocker 250 gr, and Rem Accutip.  My 100 yard groups are ugly, I'm talking everywhere.  I run patches after every single shot and am shooting off a bench.  I'm shooting trip 7, have now tried 80, 90 & 100 grains.  Rem #11 caps.  I'm spraying bullets everywhere!!  Changed sights even (rear peep).  The guy at the range that's been helping me is even shrugging his shoulders; he knows his way around these in-lines and is scratching his head.

I'm going to give Barnes 290 a go and if that doesn't work out?  I'm new at this MZ thing so I'm not above advice or other thoughts.  I've been shooting guns my entire life and a half decent shot with open sights but my lord, this is getting crazy.   

my TC wouldn't eat anything but 325g lead

 It should be noted that in PM's with the OP he sent me this.

One thing I forgot to mention is the area I drew a cow tag for requires copper, no lead bullets

 Which will change suggestions.

[Hoythunter]

Thanks for mentioning that, Huntn.  Curious though, should I be considering a 325+ grain bullet?  Again, more concerned on getting a decent 100 yd group than anything else at this point.  Was really hoping to keep it under 300 due to comfortable powder loads but I'm sure 100gr will spit out a heavier weighted sabot just fine. 

Last question, anyone find hollow points any more accurate than pointed?  I've yet to try a hollow point, maybe a heavier bloodline would be good option (for the record, Sabotloader recommended I try those when I first bought the gun a few months back, I can't take any credit for that thought)

[huntnphool]

 I have had nothing but great results from 295gr hollow point Powerbelts.

[M_ray]

Dynamit Noble caps & 250gr TC shockwave bullets 

[whacker1]

Hoyt, I could loan you mine as I won't be using it the rest of the muzzleloader season.  It shoots decent groups at 100 yards.  325 barnes solid copper .54.

I am in Spokane, so let me know if you want it.

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

I have had nothing but great results from 295gr hollow point Powerbelts.

 

[Hoythunter]

Hoyt, I could loan you mine as I won't be using it the rest of the muzzleloader season.  It shoots decent groups at 100 yards.  325 barnes solid copper .54.

I am in Spokane, so let me know if you want it.

Very, very generous offer.  I'm meeting a buddy in St. Marie's this weekend and am going to shoot and perhaps borrow his; I'll keep you posted and may take you up on your offer if it doesn't pan out.  Thanks again.

[Sabotloader]

Just sent you a PM... Glad to help if you have the time

[whacker1]

Hoyt, I could loan you mine as I won't be using it the rest of the muzzleloader season.  It shoots decent groups at 100 yards.  325 barnes solid copper .54.

I am in Spokane, so let me know if you want it.

Very, very generous offer.  I'm meeting a buddy in St. Marie's this weekend and am going to shoot and perhaps borrow his; I'll keep you posted and may take you up on your offer if it doesn't pan out.  Thanks again.

when is your season?

[Jonathan_S]

Some awesome offers here 

[Hoythunter]

Awesome offers, indeed.  Season is November 21 - Dec 4th; however, I'll be hunting MT Thanksgiving week (modern) and will only have Dec 1 - 4 to hunt the muzzy season.  This gives me lots of time to get the muzzy tuned in but with two boys playing weekend soccer and other hunting commitments in WA/ID my free time between now and then is getting tight.

[Sabotloader]

Awesome offers, indeed.  Season is November 21 - Dec 4th; however, I'll be hunting MT Thanksgiving week (modern) and will only have Dec 1 - 4 to hunt the muzzy season.  This gives me lots of time to get the muzzy tuned in but with two boys playing weekend soccer and other hunting commitments in WA/ID my free time between now and then is getting tight.

Could you get down this way on a Sunday? I like you am chasing ball games only mine are in Walla Walla and Kennewick (grand kids).

I have to tell you I have not found to much that a Rem 700ML will not shoot well - IF!

[Hoythunter]

I'll be up the St. Joe for 3 days this weekend helping my dad find an elk, so unfortunately this weekend is out.  I'll keep you posted and see if we can't get our schedules to connect.  I gotta say, everyone's input and offers to help is simply awesome, can't thank everyone enough. 

[Sabotloader]

I'll be up the St. Joe for 3 days this weekend helping my dad find an elk, so unfortunately this weekend is out.  I'll keep you posted and see if we can't get our schedules to connect.  I gotta say, everyone's input and offers to help is simply awesome, can't thank everyone enough.

Works for me!

[Hoythunter]

Quick update - I benched the Rem and am putting my buddy's Knight in the starting lineup.  I shot nothing but tight groups with the knight, no idea why I couldn't get the Rem to shot worth a dang.  Oh well, moving on.  Thanks to all who gave advise and offered up their personal time to help a complete stranger.