Let's get a thread on decoying coastal blacktails going

[JDHasty]

Thought I saw one here at one time, but a search did not return anything or I would have been content to just bring it to the top again.

I've never tried it, but this spring I picked up a Flambeau Flocked Boss Buck in the Bargain Cave in Lacey.  My plan was to pick up a doe and use our foam fawn to add movement - because that fawn dances in the slightest hint of a breeze.  I am such a cheap skate that I have been watching for a doe in the Bargain Cave, but may just have to bite the bullet and fork over full price - depending on what this thread brings up. 

I bought this book http://www.amazon.com/Decoying-Big-Game-Successful-Tactics/dp/1585747467 at Half Price in Tacoma and the strategy outlined therein seems to mirror my strategy.

I talked to a guy whose 3D decoy was screwed to death by a sizeable blacktail buck - so there may be something to this.  His target was in pieces and the rear end of it covered in blood!  I have heard that blacktail bucks are by far the most sexually aggressive North-American deer species from reading stories of high fence deer operations (urine collectors) that had multiple species in close contact with each other. 

The book above recommends scent sticks that you light on fire, but I have seen good recommendations for this one http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=85743.0 and am going to go with that unless someone has a better recommendation.

FYI, I will take an antlerless the first weekend on my second tag, but I really don't get all worked up about closing the deal with a buck until almost Halloween.  I hunt the rut.  I have a family to keep fed and getting a nice fat doe in the butcher shop is the only reason I hunt the opening weekend.  We have an elk in the freezer this year so I may just not hunt the opening weekend this year, although I will take an antlerless animal and donate it to a relative's family later on, after I fill my General tag.  But, that's just my contribution to keeping the property owners happy by thinning the herd.   

I haven't had much opportunity to scout this year, but in another thread I spoke of a real monster I caught crossing the road last season while taking an antlerless in to the butcher.   At my favorite property.   

My spies say he was out and around through July/August this year - and then he just disappeared.  Yep, they do that as soon as their antlers begin to harden.  This buck is a monster, built like a Welsh Pony and with headgear to match.  A genuine stud that is almost impossible to mistake for another buck.  There just are not that many bucks around that really stand out like this one does and if my spies have mistaken another studly monster for him... so much the better. 

There was also a respectable buck, w/deep forks and decent spread - but not terribly heavy, coming in at the same time one of the big ones we got last year on that property and AFAIK no one got a wall hanger during archery season.  I also put a third wall hanger on that property to bed the evening that I was picking up my stands in mid-November.

So I am going to go on the assumption that two, or all three of those plus what I have not yet personally seen are still in that area.  When we hang stands next weekend, I will check the rub lines and confirm. 

The doe herds are still showing most days, according to my intelligence, and what biologists have told me is that roughly 35-40% of a blacktail herd is comprised of antlered animals and about 40% of those antlered animals are three point or better. 

So, according to my intelligence, there are at the very minimum about one and a half dozen deer (mature does and yearlings) plus fawns in the doe herds using that territory, and that means that seven to nine of them are antlered, so if 30% of those are three point or better... that would make the three "shooters" that I know about the percentage of three point or better.  BUT, every year we see three point and four point bucks that lack mass.   

This leads me to believe that the herd is probably a bit larger, quite a bit larger, than what my "spies" estimate are the total number of deer in my favorite area.  Off by a factor of two or three in my favor!  I like that.   

I have to believe that I have not had the opportunity to see all of the mature bucks in that area.  Or even half of them.  Last year we did not pass up any "not yet mature" three or four points, but I have to believe that they were milling around in close proximity and this year they will have matured into something we would put our General tag on.

But I digress, that is my situation going in.  I only include that in order that others who enjoy similar access will chime in.  Next weekend, after pheasant shooting, Saturday and Sunday will be consumed by setting up on two islands and on south Kitsap.  The other situations are fairly similar. 

These and other wall-hangers have given me the finger in past years (I have seen them on properties or caught them in places where getting off a shot has not been available) and I am interested in changing that dynamic.  Ergo, maybe decoying them is the next strategy I want to give a try.  I just want to keep getting more efficient at closing the deal on big bucks.   

OK now, if I just want to get them on film - a bait pile works wonders all summer long, but once the pre-rut starts the dominant bucks, in my experience, focus changes from eating to...  cruising for does is my guess.

What I have focused on in the past is setting up to intercept them as they make their rounds and ambushing them along the way to where the doe herds will be found feeding. 

That has been a hit or miss proposition, given that secondary trails are so damnably numerous and they have so many options. 

What my theory is, is that if I set up a decoy spread, with a buck decoy and doe together and a fawn way off to the side, in a preferred feeding location that bucks that would naturally wait until after shooting hours would come charging out to drive off another buck. 

You know they are there, looking at the feeding location from back in the cover and if they don't see a doe they are not going to just walk out into a clearing before dark and get shot.  That is how they got to be big bucks.  They are going to continue their rounds, but by circumventing the clearing with the apple tree in it that you are set up watching.

BUT, me thinks, if there is what looks like what may be a receptive doe there, that may grab their interest.  If there is also a buck standing there that buck had better get his butt out there and get er' done before the interloper has a chance to close the deal with her.  Get my drift? 

Anyway, those are my thoughts.  I have experience hunting small parcels, some of which I have access to and more that I do not have.  I hunt the south end of the Kitsap Peninsula and the South Puget Sound Islands (five to eight acre parcels) and hunt with archery and shotgun and handgun and my frustration revolves around needing to get the buck I am after where I need him to be in order to close the deal.  It isn't about locating a buck's "home range," I already know where he will be cruising, looking for does to breed, once the rut is in full swing. 

I'm thinking that decoying the bigger bucks is what my tool kit has been lacking and am looking for advice in learning from others.

Let's keep the advice regarding the dangers of transporting any deer decoy, setting up a deer decoy or placing a deer decoy in a place that can be seen from the road to a minimum.  My ground blinds have ten times the blaze orange on them just because I don't want some nimrod putting a 3/4 inch leak in my plumbing with an arrow or shotgun slug.  I think most of us can always stand to be reminded of that dynamic, but let's not have this thread devolve into a basic hunter ed tirade that makes people with experience just move on instead of spend a few minutes chatting with those of us who are wanting to learn from other's experience whether decoys are something we want to give a whirl and if so what others with more experience have learned about the howto's and how not's to make the setup.   

   

   



   

   

[AKBowman]

Wow! I don't know about all that but...

Transporting a full body deer decoy through the woods during gun season can be dangerous man. 

[wt]

Ya, that could get exciting!

[2labs]

Wow! I don't know about all that but...

Transporting a full body deer decoy through the woods during gun season can be dangerous man. 

Oh my  that's funny, trophy Blacktail got your head all spun up.

It sounds like your hunting my old backyard! Get yourself a ground blind and set up on the back nine of McCormick woods golf course, any hole doesn't matter. Rose eaters every where.

[fishnfur]

I think however you place your decoys, you should involve estrous urine scent in your plans.  You're working on the fringes of the prime rut times, so you are already asking an extremely wary animal to exit his beloved hiding/travel zones and come into an opening where he is exposed.  He is likely not to the point that he is running willy nilly in a breeding frenzy so he will be hesitant to leave his brush during daylight hours.  A little buck urine may heighten the response from the buck too.

The buck decoy might do the trick well, but I think that a forked horn or small 3-point decoy next to a doe with estrous scent dragged around the "forest" opening and sprayed on the doe will enrage him better than a bigger racked buck.  If it is a really large racked buck, then it may not matter as much, but you cannot really do more than guess what he is really going to do.  It is a biological response that is unpredictable.  Most mating by blacktails occurs at night according to statistics, so you can only do so much.  The rest is up to the buck.

It sounds like you have just a buck or two that you are targeting.  You have to have a plan that will allow you to pass on those other 4-point bucks that you might normally find acceptable.  You have meat in the freezer, just wait it out and give the decoys a chance to work.  How you get a lesser buck off your decoy if they are beating the crap out of it is something you have to plan for as well.

[JDHasty]

Thanks for the advice.  Looks like I might have to take a sling shot w/me. 

You are correct that I am just targeting big bucks.  I will shoot an antlerless deer to, just because they need to be thinned.   

It did really catch me by surprise last year when I caught that monster crossing the road at noonish.  I normally don't ever see them except just at sundown. 

I had planned a lot of scouting this year and my mother's health issues combined by my wife having a baby in May kinda' helped that not happen.  I usually will go out after the seasons are all closed, at night, with a spot light to inventory what bucks are there for next year. 

I still hunt a bit, but never have found where they are bedding - I hunt smaller properties and cannot hit the areas that they most likely to be. 

I hunt the General w/shotgun slug gun (preferred), compound, crossbow and take a revolver into the stands w/me in case they come in from behind my right shoulder when I am set up where firearms are good to go. 

I have never targeted one particular buck except once.  There was a buck that had antlers that went up about four inches and then looked, from a distance, like two large cantaloupe melons.  The damn thing had, literally, hundreds of points. 

I saw him going to an apple tree frequently, but always fifty feet from where I had access. 

The places I hunt support large numbers of deer and big bucks do cruise after the rut is in swing.  You are 100% correct that they usually will not come into the open prior to an hour after sundown.  That is what I am endeavoring to fix. 

Catching them on the move, while they are still back in heavy cover has been a low success proposition because of limited sight distance and the multitude of trail options they have to choose from. 

We have caught smaller three and four points moving about during the day while still hunting, but never the heavy racked bucks.       

[JDHasty]

One thing about Island bucks, they get all the minerals they could ask for off the beaches.  I have taken my canoe out at midnight with a spotlight at low tide and the deer are down in the tidal zones eating kelp and most likely getting all the mineral licking they want right there. 

What has been working for us is knowing where the doe herds feed and setting up where we can watch that action.  The rub, as you stated, is that the big bucks just don't reliably come out into the open and check these locations until well after dark.  But every once in a while, we ambush a nice buck right there.

I re-read Iverson's book yearly before the season and what impresses me is that he located a location in which mature bucks felt safe visiting during shooting hours.  After that location was clear cut, he has not been as successful.  Has he?  Not to take anything away from that treatise, but what that book lacks is how does a person get a reluctant mature buck to expose himself during shooting hours.  That being said, the book is well worth the asking price.   

If we were talking about a trail or two leading in, me thinks,  it would simplify things a bit.  We do have an abandoned apple tree that is very prolific and is located on the break between alders, firs and a blackberry infested mess.  It has been a favorite location because big bucks seemed to walk right up to it - but how often do you see that?  Last year, not even a doe showed at that stand, wherein in years past we have let two points and three points exit right under our stand that is seventy yards away.  We don't use "stealthy" stands either, we use ladder stands exclusively due to the fact that there isn't a blacktail that ever lived that we are willing to die for. 

I was thinking about paring Boss Buck's (whitetail, I doubt it matters to deer one iota) headgear  down a bit with a portable disc grinder for just the reason you allude to.

Wish I had the doe decoy right now instead of the buck.  But, the only reason I want to hunt blacktails is to collect big ones and so maybe I will give my theories a try before altering things to the degree that they cannot be undone.  Shooting an antlerless blacktail is a chip shot, and I gots me some hungry little Hasty chillens to feed and the whole damn fam likes them some hamburgers made from Italian Sausage from Farmer Georges.  And we had Stewarts process our elk this year in order that we could have a heapin helping of Stewart's Jerkey and summer sausage.  But, what I am all about is big, heavy racked blacktail bucks.

What I am looking for is efficiency in getting what I spend countless hours setting up to happen.  I know the big bucks are sattelighting the does but yet getting them to come out of heavy cover during shooting hours is what this thread is about. 

If a person is looking to shoot a legal blacktail and they are not seeing such... to me at least, this thread is something that you may be interested bookmarking for after you become choicey.  I seriously doubt that anyone is going to "cold call" any blacktail in with decoys when you are not already hunting in the middle of property that blacktails are know to utilize daily.

I can usually take a legal blacktail buck, and can usually take a forked horned buck opening weekend.  But that is not the nut I am attempting to crack.  I know where does and sub-adult deer feed daily.  I know that mature bucks, wall hangers, are sattelighting these herds - but they are not showing during shooting hours and the nut I am attempting to crack is how to change that mature buck dynamic in our favor.  And to be clear, any mature, heavy rack is a trophy quality coastal blacktail in my book. 

I know for a fact that they are "right there."  But waiting until well after legal shooting hours.  I cannot see them, but I know for a stone cod natural fact that they are waiting back inside the cover to come out until they feel safe.  Hell, I have sat out and have personal knowledge that the big bucks DO come out after it is way to dark. 

What I am taking a leap of faith on is that they are "right there" sitting back assessing the situation from inside protective cover.  And have been there all evening.  What I am looking to do is make it less inviting to hold back, that it is to not expose themselves until way after darkness. 

The impulse to breed is a powerful impulse.  Many time it trumps common sense.  Me thinks a decoy setup can exploit that dynamic to my advantage.

Last year we had two wall hangers coming in on the 25th of October from different sides to the same apple tree.  The weather was sh*tty and this is not normal big buck blacktail behavior.  What I want to do is make coming in during shooting hours normal big buck blacktail behavior.

I know they are there, but holding back.  I want them to have a reason not to sit back and wait until it is too dark to shoot and then watch us climb down out of our stand and validate that defensive behavior instinct. 

So, if you have experience, let's hear it.         

 


 



   

 

[2labs]

No.

[AKBowman]

Coming out to the open will NEVER BE big buck Blacktail behavior. Sorry but no matter what you do you won't make a big mature Blacktail buck standing in the open a "normal" thing. That's why big Blacktail bucks are the hardest to kill deer species in North America.

I can tell you that big blacktails do move during daylight hours and one of the best times to kill big bucks during the rut is between 11-1. You just need to find the place that they frequent during mid day and "the open" is likely not that place. Probably more like a small pocket in reprod or dark timber or the edge of hard and soft woods.

I'm sure decoys would work but I've found the places that big bucks frequent during daylight hours to be too hard to get to to be dragging in multiple full body decoys. Just my opinion.

[fishnfur]

Exactly.  You obviously understand all the ins and outs of your deer population.  I think the ideas you have with using three decoys has a much better chance of working out than a lesser combination of two or just one.  I did try a 3-D decoy once in conjunction with rattling and grunting, but had no takers.  The spot showed evidence of heavy trampling, by bucks either battling or breeding.  The spot was just too close to a road and humanity, and to this day, still has only nocturnal deer use.

 Part of your "problem" (not a huge problem based on the bucks that you've bagged in the past) is that you are limited in areas that you can hunt, which are spots that those big bucks feed in after dark during most of the year, and which may or may not contain their bedding area.  Unless they live right there on that eight acre lot, your chances of seeing the big boys you're after are lower.  They presumably will not be feeding much during the rut, so they are not making daily trips to feed there.  Other considerations include the following:

- it is an island (excluding S. Kitsap, which does have island-like characteristics).  Unlike the mainland, where competition can arrive unannounced from other far-flung areas, it is entirely likely that the dominant bucks are familiar with all or most of the local and distant competition, and familiar with their scent and visual characteristics. This may limit the effectiveness of a decoy except near the peak of the rut.

- During the rut, those most dominant bucks will likely be travelling all day, or at least much of it looking for receptive does.  They may be nowhere near your stand when you are there.  They may be at the next cove (or orchard) over with another group of does.  It will likely come by your property sometime during the day, but you may never know it was there. 

- They will likely be checking on several groups of does in order to find the ones that are ready for action.  They also are likely working the downwind side of wherever they expect the does to be (feeding areas just before sunset being one of them, others include water, bedding areas etc.) so that they can scent check the area to determine which deer (bucks (competition) and/or does) are in the area, and if any of the does are hot. 

-The buck may decide to spend additional time in an area where several does are ready to breed, keeping him away from your area for an extended period.  Studies have shown that there is no real "lock down" period for bucks, as many people believe.  They apparently do the nasty until the doe says "no more", then move on.

- As already discussed, you will likely have other subordinate bucks coming along those same trails that will be interested in your setup while you are hunting it.

additional things, of which you are likely aware:

- studies of Whitetail tree stand hunters in the Midwest showed that even when using good scent-free techniques, hunters saw fewer and fewer deer in tree stands that were used multiple days in a row (more than one).   Deer became aware of the hunter presence fairly quickly.

- Many Whitetail hunters have several to many stands placed over numerous hot spots so that based on prevailing winds, they have an area that they can hunt without drifting scent into the hunt area.  If the wind is from the west, they go to hunt at area A, where the stand is placed on the eastern edge.  If it is blowing from the south, they hunt area B, where their stand is on the northern edge.  If the wind is from the east and they don't have a stand placed that can take advantage of that wind, they stay home or hunt some other "back pocket" spot. They will never hunt one of their good spots if the wind is not perfect, or nearly so. 

The good news is that you have multiple spots and several stands, if I remember correctly.  Also, you have a relatively small window of hunting days.  25 -31? Oct and 4 days in November in which you really put in the effort to get a wallhanger.  Spreading your hunts out over your spots may limit the deer becoming aware of your presence. 

Prevailing winds are pretty easy to guess at that time of year, but not a given.  Planning for an offshore low pulling winds out of the SE or NE (or whatever situation you determine might possibly spring up) might be a consideration for placing a stand in one or more of your spots.

You have seen the big boys and know where they run.  If they are still alive, they will almost assuredly be there again this year sometime during the rut.  Ultimately, it is a crap shoot going after a really big smart buck.  You may get lucky, you might not.  You've got a workable plan that sounds very reasonable, but there is no guarantee that it will work even if you do everything perfect.  I think having a plan or goal written out of what you will accept as "success"  during different periods of the season will ultimately leave you feeling satisfied at the end of the season.  That might mean taking a 3 point the last day of late buck, or it might mean that you can live without bagging anything at all if you decide that your goal is killing that one big buck that you think about every morning while you eat your cereal.

I'm curious how many others use decoys for blacktails.  I talked to one of the more successful hunters on this forum that takes really nice bucks each year with a bow.  He told me that he uses a Montana decoy - I believe it is called.  One of the cardboard types.  Perhaps there's a few of them still waiting to chime in on this topic?

[JDHasty]

"I can tell you that big blacktails do move during daylight hours and one of the best times to kill big bucks during the rut is between 11-1. You just need to find the place that they frequent during mid day and "the open" is likely not that place. Probably more like a small pocket in reprod or dark timber or the edge of hard and soft woods."

Last year when I caught that monster crossing the road in front of my truck at noonish I was thinking that dogs or someone had forced him out of where he was lying up.  He was headed straight for an orchard when I saw him.  This is the time that I am normally napping, so thanks for the info.  He didn't seem pressured in any way and I have spent the last year thinking about this.  He makes the big buck I have posted photos of look common.  He very well may have been cruising, checking out the doe herds.  He was around in late summer and if someone had taken him this fall word would have spread. 

[Special T]

Tag

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

[fishnfur]

My guess is that big boy had another doe already hot in another area and was taking the fastest route back to her.  Not cruising, but knew exactly where he was going.

Late buck hunt - mid-November a couple of years ago, I was hunting 5 year old reprod above a big timber corridor that had swamp on the far side of the entire of if and that corridor connected two larger areas of 20 year old reprod.  My original plan was to hunt that funnel/corridor in hopes of catching a buck moving between two drainages while trying to attend to does on either end.  When I got to the unit early that morning, the thermals were still going downhill towards the big timber corridor, so I hunted up high until I felt that the thermals had reversed to uphill.   Around 0930, I started working my way down to set up in the big timber, then hear from probably 300 yards away, the sound of hooves hitting the ground at a full gallop coming right down my intended hunting area.  All I could do was stand there and listen to that guy run by and keep on going, sight unseen, sounding like a horse running through the woods trying to get to point B as fast as he could possibly go (without stotting).  I'm sure I don't need to tell you that nothing else happened the entire day.  Point being, you can plan for situations like this, and a doe decoy with appropriate scent, standing alone in that corridor may have been enough to stop that guy on a dime.

[Eric M]

tag

[fishnfur]

Food for thought.....