Hunting Clearcuts?

[RC3]

The ones that have a bunch of tracks going in and out of them.  Elk and deer do not fly:)

[Eric M]

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[fishnfur]

Most of the beds you see in younger cuts are beds the deer use in the middle of the night while they are chewing their cud and resting between feedings.  Generally, they are relatively open and allow a good view so they can watch for predators.  Most of those beds are not used during daylight, but you never know for sure until you look.

[RadSav]

I hunt the clearcuts with the most sign.  Don't care what age that is.  If deer are using it I'll hunt it.  During rut I hunt the ones with the most rub/scrap lines first. 

Rut bucks will cruise the borders then enter if does are present.  50-100 yards inside trees is a good tip.  Not so far you can't glass into the cut, but far enough bucks should be cruising between you and the cut.  Trails will usually be at right angles to the fire trail.  Rut bucks will work parallel to the fire trail cutting as many of those game trails as they can.  They work rather fast.  So what isn't producing at 8AM might be producing at 10:30 AM.

These rut bucks are looking for does.  They are on high alert for any movement and any scent they can put in their nose.  So odds are they will be smelling and or seeing you long before you see them.  So I like to go, stop, glass, go, stop, glass, go, stop, glass...

Vast majority of my blacktail bucks in rut are killed between 10:30AM and 12:30PM on foggy days with occasional sun breaks.  Think the fog gives them a false sense of security and they venture into the cuts during daylight when they otherwise would not.  The fog also covers my movements too. 

You see a doe acting funny, walking in a pee type squat, tail kicked to the side...stop and watch her for at least a half hour.  That's usually a sign she is telling a buck she is willing and able.  No guy can resist that!

[fishnfur]

RadSav - more great stuff!  I wish I had half your knowledge!  Let me ask you this (and hope for another long-winded, fact-filled dissertation: 

Blacktail rubs:  I used to think that these buggers rubbed small brush and conifer to loose their velvet and then small to mid-sized alder to mark territory once they get rutted up - usually during the next week or so through the end of the rut.  More and more, I see small Grand Fir and Doug Fir somewhere around 4 years old getting the brunt of the action, and what I thought was buck rubs on alder were often bull elk rubs.   Can you clear this one up in 5000 words or less???       

Most appreciated by your students!

[bobcat]

Here are a few videos I got 3 years ago. These are 8 to 10 inch trees these bucks are rubbing. They're not alder but some type of hardwood. They've been used over and over in previous years. This is in south Thurston County.

[washingtonhunter121]

For blacktail on the westside in my experience a lot of where you are looking depends on your weather, the time of the month and also how bright it was outside the previous night depending on if they hung tight if it was cloudy/storming or if it was a bright moon which allowed them to feed and move all night with no one in the woods pressuring them. They will get up and move a little bit during the day regardless but when it is say bright and clear at night find a good clear cut with surrounding areas that are unmolested say down in a hole of a canyon etc. this is when you have to really sit and be patience and look over that clear cut for say maybe 45 minutes hard then move around get a snack and go back to looking around hard to see if anything has changed or moved into gaps in this type of cut. This would be in the 5-8 yr range. If it is say stormy find those same aged cuts that maybe have smaller protected pockets where you can catch the deer moving in and out of from the weather. The weather also allows you to get closer in on them without detecting as quickly. And I think rad mentioned this. If say you get a bunch of fog for an hour or maybe an extremely hard rain for an hour then the sun pops out. In my opinion this can be one of the best times to spot deer over here on the westside. And yes new clear cuts are mainly for catching them in the morning or right at dark trying to sneak in or out of usually thicker reprod where they spent the daylight hours. Or just wait for Halloween and hunt it hard I think our crew has killed 75% of our nice bucks then haha. Good luck and go get one.

[RadSav]

Blacktail rubs:  I used to think that these buggers rubbed small brush and conifer to loose their velvet and then small to mid-sized alder to mark territory once they get rutted up - usually during the next week or so through the end of the rut.  More and more, I see small Grand Fir and Doug Fir somewhere around 4 years old getting the brunt of the action, and what I thought was buck rubs on alder were often bull elk rubs.   Can you clear this one up in 5000 words or less???   

 

Depends on where you are at.  I see buck rubs on a lot of different trees this time of year.  I think it has to do with where the does are moving.  If they are moving through alder then they rub alder.  If they are moving through Christmas trees then they rub those.  Anything that will 1: Mark territory to other males.  and 2: Lay note to the does to scrape/pee there once they enter estrus. 

Some say the secreted pheromones from the sudoriferous glands will actually induce the does into estrus.  I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with that.  Seems a wives tale, but I have never asked a qualified biologist about that specifically.

It has seemed to me that when larger trees are rubbed the competition for does seems greater.  As if the smaller deer think that rubbing a large tree will somehow make others think they are bad arses and move on.  No scientific data to confirm that.  Just seems like it to me after many years of observation.

I also think that winter rubs tend to be on larger trees as they find the itch and prepare to drop antlers.  Sort of like picking a scab.  You firmly pic and rub it as it begin to itch.  Then one day it just falls off on it's own.


I do agree that early in the year when they are rubbing the velvet from their antlers elk use alder more than deer do.  Deer seem to prefer small spruce.  Elk alder.  But then again elk are starting pre-rut about the time most blacktails are rubbing their velvet.

Biggest thing I look for this time of year (pre-rut/full rut) is freshness.  I like when I see a new rub one week and then the next week I see four or five more along side it.  If that is alder or fir, big or small I don't pay it much mind.  I just want to find a spot they are returning to often.  And really get excited if the level of rubbing intensifies as they enter full rut.

[predatorG]

I love reading anthing by you. Write a book please 

[jtw]

This is one of the best threads in awhile. There's tons of stuff it took me a years to figure out.
I'm feeling like this should be a sticky.

[fishnfur]

Thanks Rad.  That all agrees pretty close to what I see, but the more I spread out hunting over Western WA, the more I see differences too. 

I discussed bull elk and alder rubs with Sundance.  He got me rethinking what I was seeing.  Sure as heck, rutting bulls rubbing the hell out of big alders on my cam a week later.   In Cowlitz Co. and farther west, the bulls seem to prefer to beat the crap out of spruce before anything else - both big and small.  I've never pulled a deer hair out of one, always elk.  I have pulled tons of deer hair out of alder rubs, but after seeing the bulls rub out those alders this fall, I have been pondering this whole issue again, and now take a second look at alder rubs with fresh eyes.  As you allude to, it may not matter the type of tree so much, but instead, the freshness and frequency of rubbing in the area. 

I'd love to find a spot like that in the videos Bobcat posted.  I thought I did, but the next few weeks will tell if that is really the case.

Enough of that.  Thanks for the lesson!  Sorry all for the off topic discussion.

[RadSav]

One thing you don't want to forget this time of year is terrain.  More specifically - Where is the honeymoon suite? 

I have never seen a blacktail mount a doe on a steep hillside.  I have, however, watched bucks bed in the trees while does feed on steep hillsides.  Then as the does reach the timber the buck pushes them onto a flat (usually alder or viney maple) and starts to pressure the receptive doe.


One day in Oregon I watched a buck shadow a group of does for four hours.  He never left the timber but he never laid down.  He kept his eyes on them the whole time.  When the does left the cut on the opposite side he disappeared.    Before I could adjust my position to continue watching the does he had made it all the way around the perimeter and met them within 20 yards of the cut.  They went through a small patch of timber and out into some heavy Christmas trees.  He pushed them nearly a mile like a cattle dog.  Far enough I ran back to the truck and drove five miles around to a better vantage point and caught them as they were moving into an alder flat where finally the wind and terrain was conducive to a stalk (archery).  Furthest I have ever seen a blacktail push does!

He dismounted off a doe just as I let an arrow fly...sailing over his back at 35 yards.  From the time I spotted him to the time I shot was six hours and almost two miles of deer travel.  Never once did he step into the open clear cut.  With a rifle I would have been lucky to tag him as he cut through the Christmas trees they were that thick and he was in constant motion.  Once in the alder flat he threw out all caution and focused only on servicing the does.

Now, any time I am glassing a clear cut I am also trying to determine where all adjacent flats are.  Especially alder or viney maple flats.  If I see what I think may be receptive does I try to get to that flat before they do.  It has led to some quality shot opportunities and some great mounts on the wall.

Bow Wow Chicky Chicky Bow Wow...Where's the bedroom?!!

[fishnfur]

Rad - last one tonight.
  Do you believe the bucks in the situation you described above prefer young thick alder over more mature and more open alder flats for the doing the deed?  Alternatively, do you think they learn a core rutting zone as a young buck (from the older boys in the bachelor group) and then use that same spot to breed the does as they become more dominant, (as long as the rutting zone still provides sufficient cover) and that the age of the surrounding alder is of little importance? 

Yes, sorry, sorry.  I'm off topic again. 
That's it for tonight. Off to bed for dreams of Blacktails.

[cowboycraig]

Is hunkering down in a cut, rattling, and watching the wooded edge a sound strategy?

Thinking of parking my blind right about were these two were hanging out a few weeks ago. This is in Kapowsin, but not saying exactly where

[oysters00]

a lot of good read in this thread.

thanks radsav and others