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Poll

If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?

Innocent
29 (42.6%)
Guilty
13 (19.1%)
Undecided
26 (38.2%)

Total Members Voted: 68

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Author Topic: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?  (Read 9348 times)

Offline bearpaw

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POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« on: November 09, 2015, 08:23:08 AM »
Innocent or Guilty?

If You Have Time to Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?

A New Jersey man is going to court this month over three bears he killed in October, 2014 on his porch. He claims they were shot in self-defense, but his four summonses to appear before a judge say otherwise.

See more at: http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/issue/2015-1/article/self-defense#sthash.LdwN0kmK.dpuf
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Offline Curly

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 08:31:27 AM »
The guy may have been a little too trigger happy.  But maybe not.......  :dunno:
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Online bobcat

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2015, 08:42:10 AM »
I voted "innocent." Maybe it wasn't necessary, killing all those bears. But nobody else witnessed it, so it's impossible to say. I assume the guy reported the incident to authorities himself? If so, that should be enough to show that he wasn't trying to hide anything. If he hires an attorney I see no way the state would win this case against him.
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Offline fisheral87

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2015, 08:47:39 AM »
I spent a fair amount of time with a coastal brown bear sow and three two year old cubs, they operate as a group similarly to yotes, wolves, lions. I think it is possible to have a group collectively engage.

If this guy engaged the Bears without cause, I hope they throw the book at him.

Al
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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2015, 09:48:49 AM »
Innocent until proven guilty.  IMO, the case for self-defense may not be so extraordinary, based on his account. 
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Offline BoomWhop

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2015, 10:20:35 AM »
I think he is guilty....That said I don't think anyone could prove he is guilty. I am not sure but I think there may be a different level of burden of proof when it comes to the "self defense" defense. I believe the burden of proof falls on the shooter to prove his life was in danger, not the other way around. Otherwise you could walk up to anyone, anywhere, anytime, and shoot them, then say "self defense".
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Offline Bob33

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2015, 10:21:51 AM »
Only if they're not named Papa, Mama, and Baby.
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Offline CP

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2015, 11:08:49 AM »
He shot Papa bear but he was too big …

So he shot Mama bear but she was too fat …

So he shot baby bear and he was just right …

I love a happy ending.  :chuckle:

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Offline TheHunt

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2015, 11:15:09 AM »
hahahahhaha  To funny
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Offline WildBear

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2015, 11:29:08 AM »
Crazy... I went with undecided. Probably innocent. Trigger happy for sure but understandable if he was feeling threatened. Just crazy!
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2015, 11:37:59 AM »
It's his word against the state and if it went down as he says, I think he was protecting himself and is innocent. He should be paid a reward. Bears in NJ are so over-populated because of the animal huggers that three of them won't be missed.
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Offline mfswallace

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2015, 12:18:05 PM »
I think a better title for this thread would be :

If you voted for anything other than undecided would you consider yourself to be a part of the rush to judgement crowd that is ruining our country??
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Offline STIKNSTRINGBOW

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2015, 12:20:36 PM »
Quote from: pianoman9701 on November 09, 2015, 11:37:59 AM
It's his word against the state and if it went down as he says, I think he was protecting himself and is innocent. He should be paid a reward. Bears in NJ are so over-populated because of the animal huggers that three of them won't be missed.
I have 2 questions..
1.What loads were in shotgun?

2.If they were humans, would it pass the "Reasonably Prudent" law ? WAC 192-100-010

According to the story, he was in fear of his life and property...
Probably jacked up on adrenalin.
IMHO, the time only to stop shooting when in fear is while reloading...
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Offline westsidehntr

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2015, 12:25:28 PM »
Quote from: mfswallace on November 09, 2015, 12:18:05 PM
I think a better title for this thread would be :

If you voted for anything other than undecided would you consider yourself to be a part of the rush to judgement crowd that is ruining our country??

 :tup:
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Offline GUscottie

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Re: POLL: If You Shoot Three Bears, Can You Still Call It Self-Defense?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2015, 12:28:09 PM »
I voted undecided. I'll throw my  :twocents: out there with my career having some bearing on my opinions...

He was cited due to there being probable cause (51%), or he was "more likely than not" killing the bears rather than protecting his house. Knowing a little bit about NJ, I do know they have a bad bear problem. I'll also say this, I'm surprised the officer cited him rather than forwarding it to the prosecutor for review and "consideration" of charges.

My opinion is the charges will be dropped due to there being no independent witnesses who saw or can say they saw this incident occur, whether he was truthfully protecting his property or not...

I voted undecided even with my bias
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