Front Stuffer Debate on KOMO

[rasbo]

leave it alone I say..when my eyes are to bad to shoot open sights,I will hunt with rifles only.Muzzle loaders should have a better season..I used to love bow hunting but injuries put a stop to that.We have to play the hand we are dealt.when you get to the disabled point,really disabled,then we should accomodate those with disabilities that want to hunt

[MeatDown]

MZ regs in this state are a joke, you can't tell me that technology has not made bowhunting more easy, perhaps we should only allow bows to be shot without a trigger or longbow only, no compounds(keep it more primitive).  Its pretty sad imo, I'd love to try MZ hunting but with the current regs in the state I probably won't. 

Now… I am not trying to  fight or cause a frukus… just some observations… my opinions…

Family history (Oregon Pioneer roots) half the family hunted traditional archery and shot completive and the other half of the family were modern rifle hunters. All from long lines of hunting and outdoorsmen. When my parents moved to Washington (as I was born) my Dad hunted 1 season and quit because of “City Hunters”. So, when I was growing up I shot both guns and bows as much as possible (2 sets of toy Six Guns and Holsters as baby gifts). Then when I was able to drive myself hunting here began. I hunted modern firearms here because I knew gun shooters and it was easier to get hunting partners. After many seasons of “City Hunters” putting me in their crosshairs (instead of Binos) and brush and sound shooters throwing lead past me… I said I quit… and went to archery, because of population and season length. Did archery for 12 years (I shot both traditional long bow I built with the help of Jay St. Charles – at old Northwest Archery store and several different PSE bows)… then I switched to traditional Muzzleloader. WAY LESS PEOPLE.

Now all that being said… what I have seen at many state season setting meetings were many attempts to use the “Traditional” as a means to spit hunters. At several meetings the Archery hunters would actually argue in front of the state guys about archery equipment. And at what point does it become a “Modern” hunting weapon. The original reason that we have archery season was because of some of the “old ones” like Glen St. Charles fighting/working with the state to get a season for archery hunters. A pretty narrow/simplistic view of this could be… the reason that many people hunt with and want more modern archery equipment is because it allows for longer shots and none practice shooters to harvest animals. (Note: I do believe in proficiencies tests) There are way to many example of archery guys that I have met and talked to that are proud of taking shots out at 80+ yards. And I can tell you (practice 5 out of 7 days makes you better) that for a guy that shoots/practices all the time in all kinds of conditions that might be good/ok… but for the G.I. Smoes and Sportsmans Roehouse walk in buy a bow and shoot it a dozen times, 2 weeks before the season they should NOT be taking those kinds of shots. KNOW and ADMIT Your Limitations, then be willing to pass on shots even if a “trophy” walks by at 70 yards.

And now for the last 5 years I have been front pouring and stuffing… in my opinion it is the same thing… KNOW and ADMIT Your Limitations. And more hunters need to accept that if you can’t “injun” (no offense intended – and some of that blood runs through my veins) in for a close shot don’t “lob” them out there and pray.

Remember some people consider this hunting also….

http://www.outdoorlife.com/article/Outdoor-News/Remote-Control-Hunting

 

So… some advances in hunting don’t make it better, they just make it easier and faster.

Cheers… 

Shawn

[Ray]

after my last five years archery hunting I can attest to how hard it is to get within 40 yards of a big game animal.

it takes a hell of a lot of practice to consistently shoot a good group at 40 yards

So true to the T. I hate it when the muzzleloaders compare their opportunities to archers. It is a different dynamic. I am not against muzzleloaders. I am on the verge of buying my first one but am waiting to see what the reg changes could be this year.

I think the regs are perfect the way they are as far as equipment used

I agree. I think that I have no problems with them either. If I don't like the opportunities I will buy a different tag. I'm not for pitting user groups against each other nor am I for comparing apples to oranges.

[bigmv]

I could see where one of the Barnes solid copper ML bullets would work better than a "lightweight" all lead bullet in a sabot. 

Guys use sabots and "light" all lead bullets for a flatter trajectory, thus increasing the range that they feel comfortable shooting.  The problem is that the bullet needs double lung the elk to be effictive, especially at longer ranges IMO.  With a solid copper Barnes bullet, you could probably shoot the elk right in the shoulder and have the bullet pass through into the vitals.  With the all lead bullet, it would likely not make it into the vitals.

I think Oregon doesn't even allow sabots and maybe Colorado too.........Idaho maybe.  I'm a little surprised that this state even allows saboted bullets.  If sabots weren't allowed, then heavy conicals would be the norm; then ranges would be limitted to +/- 100 yards and I think less animals would be wounded by guys trying bad shots at longer ranges.

A big conical could bust right through the shoulder too, and into the vitals.

I have a 54 cal sidelock and a 50 cal inline.  I use saboted bullets in the inline and big conicals in the sidelock.  I only take broadside lung shots, though with the inline.....125yd max range.

I'm on the fence re: allowing the use of jacketed bullets, but I lean toward not allowing them. 

Actually, I'd prefer to limit ML's to sidelock only and no sabots and then get some more units and move the season a week earlier (so that it is during the end of the rut).  But I won't hold my breath for that wish to happen.

If the state gets it way we wont have to worry about using lead only bullets. The State Department of ecology want to ban lead bullets altogether.
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/biblio/0807009.html

[Curly]

If the state gets its way we won't have to worry about using lead only bullets. The State Department of ecology want to ban lead bullets altogether.

Maybe that's why the proposed rule change has the bullet requirements lined thru.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,18662.msg215317/topicseen.html#new

[shag]

I'd love to see us have the option of say a 1x or 2x Fixed scope..  For 1 we could actually hunt every minute allowed in a day.  Another would be better shot placement resulting in fewer lost or wounded animals.

As far as my frontstuffer goes only more powder and lighter weigh bullets gets me more yardage.  With the bullet changes possible I might get to 200yds.  But will I still have the energy?  I don't know.

The way I'm set up right now with a 300gr sabot and 110grs of 777 my max shot is 150yds.  14" drop.  Still pretty damn far to be shooting.  And shot placement is tough under certain conditions.  If I could scope it with a 1x 0r max 2x fixed scope I'd feeel more comfortable with a 150 yd shot.

I practice alot at that range and can put 3 shots just under 4 inches.   Scoped I could prolly keep it at 1-1/2!!!!   

A fixed 1 or 2x power scope isn't gonna extend my range past that.   On an elk at 150 hold at the top of his back and he's dead.  I still have the energy and  ain't gonna hold over any more than that.


During modern firearm season you can scope a frontstuffer and hunt any unit thats open.  With a modern tag.

Scoped or not we all should know our own  limitations.  And restrict ourselves to responsiable distances.   The only advantage a scope would add it better shot placement.  And theres lots out there that need that.

Truthfully, I'm not syre I'd use a scope as my frontstuffer is a perfectly balanced machine and no doubt my favorite to carry. 

[logger]

I use a inline blackdiaomd and will only m.l. hunt now . I would join the wmla but don't want to be chastised for using an inline. I do believe they would benefit from my membership because I will fight for the rights of hunters be it rifle,bow or muzzle loader.