Grandson Rifle

[ghosthunter]

Ok
I have a 14 year old Grandson. Who will go through H.E. Next year.
He was born with bi lateral cleft lip and pallet. He has many surgeries over the years on his face,mouth and ears.
Children with cleft you may not know often have severe problem with their ears.

On top of this his ears are extremely sensitive to noise like the report of a firearm.
Even with muffs. If his parents take him any where loud noise might be present they also take muffs.

He has been shooting .22s for years. But is only now wanting to step up to higher caliber rifle.

Sooooo here is my mission;
I want to buy him one rifle that can take any game in Washington.
Coyote,bear,deer,elk.
Must be low re- coil or fitted with the best recoil reducer possible.
Low report or be able to be fitted with suppressor .
Must be bolt action, right handed.
Topped with a 3x9  scope.

So what are your suggestions? Or ideas.

[Dan-o]

Dick's has a Savage Axis in today's add (with a fishbonker 3x9) for $199.     

If you got him a 7MM-08, you'd be good to go for anything.

I don't know how to cut down on noise......

[ghosthunter]

Here he is.

[ghosthunter]

What are thoughts on a .308 or .243 ?

[huntnphool]

Ruger American Compact 7mm-08 http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleCompact/specSheets/6909.html

[Mark251]

Something chambered in 7mm-08 or a .308 may be the way to go.  Both offer a little less recoil and a cartridge that can be suitable for any game in Washington. Would your Grandson be okay with a rifle that may be a little heavier?  If so, Cabela's has the Weatherby Vanguard on sale for $450.  They're great rifles for the money...a bit heavy for a carry rifle but the weight can help to reduce felt recoil.  I think noise is going to be a factor with whatever you choose.  Would a good pair of electronic muffs help?  Also, Cabela's is advertising the Leupold VX-2 on sale.  I have several Leupolds and the VX-2 is a great scope for an entry-level package.  Just my thoughts.....

[huntnphool]

What are thoughts on a .308 or .243 ?

243, 7mm-08 (.284) and 308 are all the same case, just necked down to accommodate smaller diameter bullets.

[Westside88]

I'm sure you'll get many good suggestions for a low recoil versital caliber. Is a sound suppressor an option? I'm not very versed in the rules for them, but I thought there was talk of allowing them for hunting.

[carpsniperg2]

7mm-08 would be a great choice. If the recoil is still a but much and you guys don't handload. Hornady does light/reduced recoil loads for the 7mm-08 and 308 as well.

Since you said suppressor I am guessing someone he can hunt with has one? A great choice would be a ruger predator in 308. Already threaded and ready for a suppressor. I run one and they are great guns. Basically the same as the plain American models.

A suppressor can take a year or more to get with the wait times and you are looking at a 200.00 tax stamp and atleast 500 for a 30 cal suppressor. So figure atleast 700.00 if you are going that route.

[Hilltop123]

If you reload , you can make some pretty effective reduced recoil loads for the 308. I do this for my wife, she took her first elk this season with the 308.  Matched with a rifle of moderate weight, should fit the bill as far as recoil goes. The noise factor is going to be hard to get around, maybe someone on here has an idea as to deal with that. Good luck.

[ghosthunter]

Ruger American Compact 7mm-08 http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleCompact/specSheets/6909.html

Shoter barrel rifles seem like they have more felt recoil? Any thoughts?

[teanawayslayer]

I just purchased the savage model 11 scout chambered in .308. It comes with a muzzle brake. He is 9 and shoots it well. He put 30 rounds through it the other day with no problem. It has removable spacers on the stock to fit him now and put the spacers back in as he grows. It also has an adjustable cheek pad.

[ghosthunter]

I just purchased the savage model 11 scout chambered in .308. It comes with a muzzle brake. He is 9 and shoots it well. He put 30 rounds through it the other day with no problem. It has removable spacers on the stock to fit him now and put the spacers back in as he grows. It also has an adjustable cheek pad.

I have never used a muzzle break but there was some discussion that they increase report. Any thoughts?

[ghosthunter]

I'm sure you'll get many good suggestions for a low recoil versital caliber. Is a sound suppressor an option? I'm not very versed in the rules for them, but I thought there was talk of allowing them for hunting.

They are legal but they add some to the overall cost. Not sure about all the ins and outs with them.
Previous post says year to get and 200.00 tax.

[ghosthunter]

Maybe there is a better quality ear plug i can get him. Muffs are tough when hunting.

[scottfrick]

Not sure how close you are too me, but I have a bunch of smaller caliber rifles such as .257, 3 270s, and my wife's .308. If you want to meet up sometime at a range I can bring those rifles and he can try them out to see which one fits him best. We can buy the lowest recoil ammo we can and figure something out with the noise reduction. Think it'll help narrow things down for him. If interested let me know, I'm always available. Just send me a pm!

[lamrith]

7-08 as mentioned or 6.5 grendel.  Grendel is a great round for recoil sensitive people.

For a can, no need to got high$.  $200 stamp, 140day wait (currently for form1 efile) and build one yourself.  Wait is not a year the last I checked, even for paper file, looks like around the same 140days, but have to add postal time ontop of that and shop delays...  Buying one takes longer due to being paper filed.  I built one a few months back after getting my form1 efile stamp.  I am $400 TOTAL including stamp..  Cans are supposed to lower recoil too so you get a double benefit, they are legal to hunt with here.  Just know they often alter POI verses the bare barrel, so make sure to practice and sight in with it.

[hunting4sanity]

If sound is an issue don't get anything with a brake - great for recoil, terrible for sound.  I wish it wasn't so slow and expensive to get suppressors, but that would be a great answer if it's doable.  Suppressors aren't going to make it like the movies quiet, but they do a great job of suppressing sound and there will be a noticeable reduction in recoil as well.  Carp's idea on the Ruger American Predator is a good one, that gun is also available in 6.5 Creedmoor (another good caliber).  Then if the suppressor is something you eventually get, the rifle is threaded and ready to go.  I think suppressors are great.

[ghosthunter]

I haven't reloaded in years.
I own a .308 semi auto. And I have a ton of fired once brass.
.308 might be a option.

[Stein]

Dick's has a Savage Axis in today's add (with a fishbonker 3x9) for $199.     

If you got him a 7MM-08, you'd be good to go for anything.

I don't know how to cut down on noise......

Second the Axis, although I would get it in 30-06 for me, maybe .308 for you.  Unfortunately you will probably double the cost of the rifle putting a brake on it. 

[teanawayslayer]

I just purchased the savage model 11 scout chambered in .308. It comes with a muzzle brake. He is 9 and shoots it well. He put 30 rounds through it the other day with no problem. It has removable spacers on the stock to fit him now and put the spacers back in as he grows. It also has an adjustable cheek pad.

I have never used a muzzle break but there was some discussion that they increase report. Any thoughts?

it's not bad at all

[ghosthunter]

Not sure how close you are too me, but I have a bunch of smaller caliber rifles such as .257, 3 270s, and my wife's .308. If you want to meet up sometime at a range I can bring those rifles and he can try them out to see which one fits him best. We can buy the lowest recoil ammo we can and figure something out with the noise reduction. Think it'll help narrow things down for him. If interested let me know, I'm always available. Just send me a pm!

Thank you for the offer. They are still  doing some work on his ears. So may be spring early summer before I get him at a range bench.

[Stein]

I just purchased the savage model 11 scout chambered in .308. It comes with a muzzle brake. He is 9 and shoots it well. He put 30 rounds through it the other day with no problem. It has removable spacers on the stock to fit him now and put the spacers back in as he grows. It also has an adjustable cheek pad.

I have never used a muzzle break but there was some discussion that they increase report. Any thoughts?

it's not bad at all

Depending on where you are standing.  Not bad for the shooter, not good for the guy standing next to him.

[Hilltop123]

I haven't relaxed in years.
I own a .308 semi auto. And I have a ton of fired once brass.
.308 might be a option.

Looks like you had the answer all along! Now match it with the right ammo, and your off running!

[2labs]

That .308 semi. Might be the ticket for few years. Low recoil and from gramps.

[fastdam]

7mm-08 or even a .260 Rem.with a fast twist barrel.

[ghosthunter]

That .308 semi. Might be the ticket for few years. Low recoil and from gramps.

I thought about it but it is a heavy gun. And lots of buttons to push. Pulling the bolt back takes some jucie.
I brought him along with a bolt action. Kind like to stay with it until he gets some experience on the mountain with it.

[huntnphool]

Ruger American Compact 7mm-08 http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleCompact/specSheets/6909.html

Shoter barrel rifles seem like they have more felt recoil? Any thoughts?

 Neither of my kids have a issue with their short barrel rifles, your grandson is welcome to try them out if you want to take a drive down, or I'll be up that way in the next couple months and can bring them.

[carpsniperg2]

7-08 as mentioned or 6.5 grendel.  Grendel is a great round for recoil sensitive people.

For a can, no need to got high$.  $200 stamp, 140day wait (currently for form1 efile) and build one yourself.  Wait is not a year the last I checked, even for paper file, looks like around the same 140days, but have to add postal time ontop of that and shop delays...  Buying one takes longer due to being paper filed.

For first time applicants using a trust paper filed it right at a year. I know 6 different people that are between 10-15 months right now waiting for there suppressors. Another state or 2 was made legal and flooded the paperwork.

it took me right a year to get my first 3 from a sponsor on here. paper file.

I have not used the efile and last time I knew it was crashed but that was a few months ago.

For people that already have some setup. They are getting them back around 3-4 months that's the wait for the stamp. Most time the transfer from wholesaler or manufacture can take a month or so as well. Unless a dealer has them in stock.

[BigGoonTuna]

something like a 308 or 7mm-08 sounds like it'd fit the bill.  or if you buy used, something like a savage 30-30 bolt action.

[Firedogg]

 I did not read all the posts in this message thread, but as far as hearing protection custom molded rubber type ear plugs dona good job, but you can increase the protection further by using ear muffs over them.

  As far as a rifle, which you have gotten plenty of advice on I would look at one of the Ruger 77s in .270 Win, and add in one of the recoil reducing devices into the stock. They greatly reduce felt recoil, add a little weight, but recoil is reduced more so than a break and you don't get the noise increase.

Something like this that you can pick up online through  Brownells

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/recoil-parts/recoil-reducers/recoil-reduction-system-prod6728.aspx

[ghosthunter]

Ruger American Compact 7mm-08 http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleCompact/specSheets/6909.html

Shoter barrel rifles seem like they have more felt recoil? Any thoughts?

 Neither of my kids have a issue with their short barrel rifles, your grandson is welcome to try them out if you want to take a drive down, or I'll be up that way in the next couple months and can bring them.

Thanks
I might be over thinking it. I have been bringing him along real slow because of the ear thing. He is ok being around my 30.06 as long as he is back a ways and got full protection.

[ghosthunter]

Some good ideas from all. Glad I asked on here. 

[lamrith]

7-08 as mentioned or 6.5 grendel.  Grendel is a great round for recoil sensitive people.

For a can, no need to got high$.  $200 stamp, 140day wait (currently for form1 efile) and build one yourself.  Wait is not a year the last I checked, even for paper file, looks like around the same 140days, but have to add postal time ontop of that and shop delays...  Buying one takes longer due to being paper filed.

For first time applicants using a trust paper filed it right at a year. I know 6 different people that are between 10-15 months right now waiting for there suppressors. Another state or 2 was made legal and flooded the paperwork.

it took me right a year to get my first 3 from a sponsor on here. paper file.

I have not used the efile and last time I knew it was crashed but that was a few months ago.

For people that already have some setup. They are getting them back around 3-4 months that's the wait for the stamp. Most time the transfer from wholesaler or manufacture can take a month or so as well. Unless a dealer has them in stock.

I filed SBR in March and got caught in that fiasco, so I was never setup in thier system.  On 4/23/15 I filed for my Form1 Efile can with a brand new trust, I was approved 8/11/15.

You touched on the real issue people buying Manufactured Cans from stores/online take so long to get their Can.    Per the NFA tracker site linked form4 are sitting at the same 140day avg as the Efile form1.  However that is NFA process time, not including the time lost by store, USPS etc..  Most paper file ones have huge lag due to store/warehouse time ontop of the physical mail time of the forms back and forth.  That is why I highly recommend people do a Form1 Efile and DIY can and cut the wait down by a good month or much more depending on the store/online company..

The Efile system has not crashed.  It does go down every Wed for maintenance, so maybe someone saw that and started spreading rumors, there is also a once a month big maintenance that takes it down for a while.

[carpsniperg2]

I looked on silencer shop.com which is one of the biggest suppressor dealers and they have a post on there saying that in late april the efile sytem went down and they are not offer it

They have there paper person stamps taking about 9 months, there trusts taking about 5 months on there site they keep up on. Like you said if you build one you can get done sooner for sure. For people buying them I think 7 months atleast is a good guess. Like I said I know tons of people waiting right now that have had stuff in for 10-15 months.

[runningboard]

I put together a Remington 700 youth with a new take-off barrel in 7mm-08 and the take off was 24". it pushes rather than rises as it recoils and the muzzle blast is further from the shooter and more powder burns inside the barrel (bonus, more velocity), recoil is mild. it came with the limbsaver pad on it. my vote would be that, a 7mm08 with a longer barrel, you choose make, brand, model. naysayers will say "it'll be too long." but they hunt with shotguns nearly a foot longer shooting at moving targets, then cry over a few inches extra barrel length on a firearm designed to be shot at stationary, maybe slow moving targets. good luck and have him post pics of his success in the future 

[lamrith]

I looked on silencer shop.com which is one of the biggest suppressor dealers and they have a post on there saying that in late april the efile sytem went down and they are not offer it

They have there paper person stamps taking about 9 months, there trusts taking about 5 months on there site they keep up on. Like you said if you build one you can get done sooner for sure. For people buying them I think 7 months atleast is a good guess. Like I said I know tons of people waiting right now that have had stuff in for 10-15 months.

Yeah I believe the ATF was taking form4 (what a dealer would submit for you) efile for a while but have stopped that.  Only form1 (which the dealers cannot do) are being taken via Efile now, so that message from them makes sense.  I just got my Form1 approval thru the efile site in Aug 2015...

[carpsniperg2]

Sounds right to me.

[Special T]

Sounds like a 308 & a can should be in the works!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

[CementFinisher]

have 338-06 built with a threaded barrel for a suppressor. Would be a life long gun. Can run a shorter barrel, will be easier for him to weild especially once suppressor is added. big enough for anything out there.

[yorketransport]

I might be over thinking it. I have been bringing him along real slow because of the ear thing. He is ok being around my 30.06 as long as he is back a ways and got full protection.

My 11 y/o son has incredibly sensitive hearing so it's been a slow process getting him into shooting larger calibers. In fact he goes and sits in the cab of the truck with plugs and muffs on when I pull out any of my guns. It's been a gradual climb from 22 lr, to a 22 hornet, 6mm BR, 6.5 Grendel, and now I'm working on a 6.5x47 Lapua. What I've noticed with him is that a longer barrel helps. Short barrels put muzzle blast right in the shooter's face which makes the perceived recoil worse. The longer barrel moves it away from the shooter enough to take some of the edge off.

The best advice i can give you is go slow and work at his pace if the muzzle blast is an issue. It took months to get my son comfortable with the 6mm BR and one shot from a 243 sent us back to the 22 hornet again.

Andrew

[ghosthunter]

Well the time has come.
My grandson stepped up this month and passed Hunter Ed 100%.

Shot a 20 gauge no problem. Even broke a clay on first shot. Seems like he really grew up .

So we decided on a Savage Axis, Real Tree Cammo stock ,full length.
In 7mm 08. 3x9 Bushnell scope .

We picked it up today and will be heading to the range, later this week.

I went back and forth from the Ruger American and the Axis.

In the end I went with the Axis. My buddy bought two Americans for his grandsons.

But the Ruger has a known problem with the comb and no scope.

He handled it tonight seems like it fits him fine.

[brew]

good luck with the venture...this is about as cool as it gets trying to work with the shooter to make it as easy as can be for them to be able to hunt and pursue the passion they want to achieve....i do believe in Karma and can't wait to see some of the pics you post of him being successful...not only in him taking game but being out in the woods with the people who made it possible for him---ultimately that is the greatest success

[ghosthunter]

Well he has spent some time at the range now behind this rifle. And all is well.
Got the final tune up and sight in today.

I am impressed in how well it shoots and he shoots it.
140 grain Nolser Partition shoots the best out of it.

Three boxes of shells through it and no recoil problem for him. Picked him up a used Gunrunner pack . So we are set now. Going to try to get out after a bear. Soon.

[Henrydog]

  ghosthunter.  I don't have grandkids yet, but watching my kid drop his 1st deer several years ago or the countless roosters he has dropped brings more satisfaction to me then anything I have ever shot.  Ya, dad, or in your case grandpa, has shot something bigger and/or many more but there is nothing like watching one of your own succeed at what we love.  Nice job and great investment.  The more kids that will understand how nature works and put there smartphones down is a great investment in this day and age.

[ghosthunter]

He got out yesterday and took it for a walk.

[gadwall]

Awesome!  Great job with the choice of caliber and rifle.  I have helped with alot of hunter ed classes over the years and rifle choice for the new hunter is always the number one question.  My tops are the 7 mm 08 and the 260 rem in that order and only because its easier to find ammo for the 7 if you happen to leave it at home.  Both will take anything that walks on American dirt and you can purchase or load low recoil loads.  best of luck on your trips this fall.  Let us know how it goes.

[Taco280AI]

6.5 Creed or 7-08

[jackmaster]

Another one for 7mm-08 , idk if you can load sub sonic rounds that will still have enough punch to kill a deer though, last thing the kid needs is to wound a bunch of deer, also it IS legal to get a silencer, it takes about a year or so after you file the paper work!! When it comes to him actually hunting with it I don't know if it's legal but it would help while practicing, when it comes time for him to actually shoot a deer or whatever, I bet his adrenaline takes over and he won't even hear the gun or feel the recoil good luck to the young man.. Go gettum kid !!!