A bit Dissapointed

[Bwana Bob]

I got a 1.5 yr old Brittany female back in Feb. She is now a bit over 2yr old. She has never been hunted but she was birdy. I spent from Feb - Sept training her. I got he broke to the gun and Whoa trained or so I thought. She has pointed 100 planted pigeons or so. I could let her go on planted birds and she would hold a solid point until I got to her. She is by no means broke to wing but I keep her from chasing the released birds using a check cord. Some times I had to use it and other times she would stand her birds and watch them fly off.

She pointed a few chukars and a few pheasants during that 5 day old man pheasant hunt in Sept. So far she seemed like she was going to do well. Now for the reality check. I took her out for quail and all she would do was bust and chase them. I had to use my shock collar to get her to whoa and not chase them forever. I can understand the chasing as she is not broke to wing, but just noseing them up got me more than pissed. I hunted her with my old 13 yr old Britt that still holds a solid point hoping she would point when she did. Some times she did and some time she would take her point out. which really made me mad. I did no shooting when she flushed them. Well this weekend she decided to point and hold a point for a long time. I got 30 or so birds scattered out in the open sage. The old dog was on point beeper going off and she was 30yd away on point to. went to the old dogs point first but it went out on its own. When I got to her she wanted to creep in but a soft whoa and the collar kept her from moving in. I wounded that bird but both dog worked it and pointed it again over 100yd away, another solid point for her.

Should I just keep hunting her hoping she will get steady on quail or keep her in the kennel and do some more training this spring. Can't use the pheasant release sites now for training. I won't hunt her any longer with my old dog as she just follows her and doesn't hunt in front of me or listen to my commands unless I use the collar.  I can't control my old dog because she is deaf so I rely on the beeper to know when she's on point. She runs a lot closer when its just us, almost too close for my liking. My old dog runs a lot bigger.
The plus side to this dog is that she is crazed about hunting and birds. She won't stop hunting until she back to the truck. She seems to have a willingness to please me but its a tuff love situation as she is a bit hard headed. 

I guess my disappointment with her is not making that transition from planted birds to wild ones.The 4 Britts I had before her all made that transition very fast. . Man it sucks having to pass up on birds and coming  home with 5 or 6 bird for two days hunting. It also sucks being 65 and knowing you may not be able to out hunt your last dog. I just don't want my last dog to be a marginal dog.

I hope I'm not sounding too critical and selfish but after having 3 britts before her that were exceptional life is still to short for a mediocre dog.

Any tips or tricks that will help her along will be much appreciated. 

Bob

[AspenBud]

Pen raised birds are not wild birds. They smell different, they take pressure different, and the conditions in which they are found is often different.

I would keep taking the dog out and let it learn from its mistakes. There is no better dog trainer than wild birds.

[jetjockey]

Keep tapping the dog with the collar when she takes out birds, she will catch on.  I had to do the exact same thing with my 16 month old Brit this weekend on pheasants.    After the third busted bird, she began holding her points again. She was money on quail before the pheasant hunt, and unraveled a little on the first few pheasants.  By the end of the hunt, she was money on her pheasants as well.

[Bwana Bob]

Thanks for the tips guys. I won't give up on her so soon. Last Sunday gave me some encouragement  I hope to hunt at least 10 more days before the season ends.

[NW-GSP]

If she does not point the birds do not shoot them.

[Bwana Bob]

Haven't shot one bird that she flushed. Sucks getting into birds and not shooting very many. Won't have too many quail dinners this season.

[AspenBud]

Have you ever used a half hitch with the dog? If so you can work on staunching the dog with that in yard work and then transition over to a belly band over time to use as an invisible half hitch in the field. I would be leery of zapping the dog in the field, you can cause it to blink birds that way, but if a dog associates the tickle of an e-collar around its waist with the word whoa and a waste hitch you can get somewhere. I'm not a pro trainer there, so you might want to look up what I am talking about more before doing it, but it's a thought.

[JayBird02]

Thanks for the tips guys. I won't give up on her so soon. Last Sunday gave me some encouragement  I hope to hunt at least 10 more days before the season ends.

I had the same issue with my Brittany when he was about 18 months old. I'm not a pro trainer at all but I started doing this. Started out tying him to a whoa post and slowly progressed to no half hitch and then no collar. But at the end of the day nothing is better than wild birds.

[wildweeds]

Just keep hunting,expect little she will get it. Just make sure to say nothing and get birds shot over points. I had one just like yours, knock and chase, I hunted her 9 days,3 hours per day before she pointed. When she decided that was the game after I shot that bird,which was a hen pheasant. She was a completely different dog,by the end of that season she had given up the chase and was broke to wing on her own without ecollar. Get her into birds on her own and hunt the old dog for the thrill of the kill. She will get it. I myself would refrain from tapping till she breaks the chase,depending on her mental make up you may just get a blinker that runs as if hunting but actually ignores birds and passes them by. If she's very agressive and somewhat bullhead ed I guess it'd be allright to give her the buisness.if you let her chase she will tire,once she is tired she will point. Seen it,been there and done it multiple times over the last 20 years with pointy dogs.

[Forks]

As others have said, hunt her by herself and put her on more wild birds. If you want to kill, use the veteran. Be patient and the results you are after will come.

[Bwana Bob]

Thanks guys for all the advice.

Aspen Bud. I have used the half hitch on her  teaching Whoa. I'll look into your method

Forks. I will run her on her own from now on. Some of the hunts I go on take a long time to hunt properly. I hate to keep the old dog in the truck that long but Ill have to from now on.

Wildweeds. I'll be careful with my use of the e-collar. Never owned one until this dog. she's hard headed and an a aggressive hunter but I don't want to chance ruining her with the collar.

I hate to go to the East side this weekend but I have fri off and may hunt both Fri and sat and come home sat evening before the hordes come back to the west side.

Will try to get her into as many birds as I can between now and the last day.

You all Have a Great Thanksgiving

Bob

[constructeur]

Bob-

Post season if you want to get together and train some, we can do that. Head North a bit and have some space and all to work things out.

In regards to stimulation, I say never use the collar when the bird is on the ground, It's still Shyla's at the point, once it's in the air it's yours and I'd use as much stimulation as the dog needs to make it stop chasing.

I think with your situation, and her prey drive that she needs and can also handle more electricity than you think.

For the rest of the season I'd go out and hunt her with my hand on the e collar control first with my gun at the ready, not the other way around. It makes for expensive 'training' but may end up with her putting it all together and being dialed in by the end of the season or ready for the next season at the very least.

[scottr]

Try a check cord (you can half hitch it like Aspen said). That'll slow her roll and give you a better chance to woah her and get a correction if she busts the birds. And definitely don't shoot unless she stays on point.

[joe_dumy]

I might add be patient too. I finally settled that I had a mediocre dog this season. She was still busting birds. Wouldn't fetch. Didn't seem to be really Hunting, ranged too close and to far. Then all of a sudden this season she points and holds birds, has her head in the air trying to get scent and once she does she drops her nose for foot scent. And did several crazy chukar retrieves over 200 yards down the cayon. Wow I couldn't believe it. It's like all the training came together at once for her. I would say remain positive and consistent and you will end up with the dog you want. This is my dogs third season. And the last two seasons my wife was really shaking her head at the time and money I put into Pam but she was bragging about her at the diner table last night.

[ribka]

Be patient

It is tough trying to train a dog on wild birds alone. Running a check cord, collar, correct timing and trying to get in the shot if the dogs does well

Helps to hunt with another person( shooter ) first year on wild birds so you can concentrate 100 per cent on dog and training. I think the desire, drive  and prey drive is a large part of the equation for a good hunting dog and of course companion. Some dogs pick up quickly others, if patient and consistent, eventually get it . As is often said, It's the trainer not the dog.

Good luck