Bowhunters unite and voice your opinion!

[popeshawnpaul]

I'm a member of the Washington State Bowhunters.  Good to see they have acted on this.  These proposals are awful with regard to archery and mountain goat. 

[bowhuntin]

Here is a link to a petition of the proposal for season changing from the WSAA forum.

http://washingtonarchery.org/cp/Scripts/ASP/discuss/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=152&PID=732#732

[dbllunger]

Here is what I have sent them so far.  Need to get the Elk one  done and a couple others.


DEER
 
To Who it concerns;
     I have been elected to express our family hunters position on your proposed seasons.  This email is directed by seven licensed hunters who these regulations will directly affect.  Two of the seven are Archery hunters and the rest are Modern Firearm hunters.
 
     I would like to express my EXTREME displeasure with the APPALLINGLY biased and poorly thought out hunting season and regulations proposals for 2009-2011.  I will only deal with Deer on this reply as everything would get lost due to the amount of problems I see.  These are the worst proposals I have ever seen presented, and the negative result on our deer herds will last many many years.  With the time constraints you have limited hunters and yourself to I believe this was intended to force these proposals through.  The solution is simple just add the same regulations for one more year as an "emergency" measure (Yes it can be done!!), reduce and or add permit hunts and permit numbers.  Then work on a quality three year proposal that all hunting methods can enjoy.  I also think the only people from the public who should have any ability what so ever to make comments should be valid license and tag holders.  If a hunter does not have a Deer tag then they should have no input on what happens with the Deer seasons and permits.  We all have WILD ID numbers so it should be very easy to make that happen.     
 
     I really don't know where to start because there is so much that is wrong with these proposals.  I feel that the WDFW needs to start managing it's wildlife for quality and health of the heard as it's first priority.  It needs to show in it's proposals and regulations.  WDFW obviously manages based on public opinion, and that is the worst type of management for wildlife.  I am not biased against any one weapon choice, and feel that all hunting methods should have quality opportunity.  I will do my best to narrow down the problems and upsets I have with these proposals.  I don't have any experience hunting Western Washington as I have spent all of my hunting life in Eastern Washington and other states.  I started hunting at the age of 10, and have been hunting Wa. For the last 32 years.  I will limit my comments only to the areas that I have personal and actual knowledge of not some made up bias to try to fool people into believing is the truth.  I fully understand negotiating strategy and techniques, but I am only going to say the way I see it. I could easily show the extreme bias and prejudice others have shown (committee members) in hopes you settle on middle ground.  I will be more respectful and supportive of the entire hunting community then some committee members have shown.  There are not enough hunters now, and these proposals are so bad there will be even fewer directly due to WDFW actions. 
      I think it should be noted my hunting partner for my entire hunting life can not walk more then a 100yds due to a expanding medical condition (not just overweight or lazy).  He also is a true dedicated hunter who lives for the next hunting opportunity.  Only a hunter can begin to understand the hurt and upset loosing the ability to hunt feels like.  Even more so when the loss is out of your control and no one can help you.  This condition has progressed from him being able to walk and hike miles in the back country only five years ago, and will continue to progress and become worse every moment.  Please do not feel sorry for him or I at all as we want no pity.  I would just ask that you keep this in your thoughts as you read some of my beliefs on hunting and hunting seasons in Washington because some of my choices would limit his ability to hunt if we allowed it.  He even agrees because he knows that is what is best for the deer herds.

So here we go.....       
 
Deer Seasons:
     I hunt deer with Modern Firearm (help my daughter and sons) and with a bow for myself.  I am not biased against any one weapon choice.  The Muzzle Loader hunters have really been messed with in regards to hunting seasons, and they should have had some better hunting opportunities.  I have hunted Mule Deer and White Tail during the Rut in regular season so I know what rifle hunters want. The reality is the hunter numbers, road access, and public land available should preclude Wa. From having a Modern Firearm regular season during the rut.   
 
Modern Firearm General Seasons,
     Mule Deer. Unless more roads and the absolutely easy access is reduced modern firearm seasons and lengths should not change much.  The Deer Herds will be decimated if you allow a Modern Firearm season to be in place during the Rut.  And yes Eastern Washington Mule Deer are rutting the last week of October!!!  It is not that hard to put up some gates and enforce a no motor vehicle rule if you insist on running a late firearm season.  Forget about all your rules and procedures about setting dates later if it falls on a certain Sunday.  Allow a 10-12 day season during the first three weeks of October.  Set the date based on the calendar and people will hunt the season. 
     White Tail. The same thing applies for your proposed White Tail late season but November.  You can not extend the modern firearm general season into the rut.  The deer can not handle the pressure and overall killing that will happen. 
     Ask dedicated rifle hunters and they will tell you the same thing.  The weekend warrior road hunter will not have the success they want and are complaining about.  Why should a hunter who puts minimal effort into hunting have the same success as those who put a lot of time and effort into hunting.? 
 
Archery Late Season, 
     Mule Deer.  How can you just eliminate an entire hunting season/area for a huge portion of the state?  If you don't want as much pressure during the rut then simply shorten the season, and set it so it falls as much as possible out of the rut.  I can't believe you actually think moving the season later (December 15th) will not have a huge impact on Deer.  How difficult is it to see that the winter would now be in full swing and the deer are even more concentrated and stressed then two weeks prior.  Just reduce the days allowed to hunt.  The most amazing and insulting thing is that now you allow hunting methods that are far easier to kill a deer with (Modern Firearm, Muzzle Loader) to hunt the times that you eliminated the most difficult (Archery) from hunting.  Do the same concerns that cause you to eliminate the archery hunters apply to the other methods of hunting?
     White Tail.  Same as Mule Deer.  These proposed changes are so rediculus that I have a hard time even comprehending they were proposed.
    Why don't you just open up some more units to hunt for the late season? The hunters will spread out more and put less pressure on a few areas.  Then all the issues will take care of themselves and everyone still has quality seasons and hunting.  You will not get a majority of rifle hunters immediatly switching over to Archery.  Even if you did the kill ratio's would drop.  (Exhample.  Instead of 100 bucks being killed in the Swakane unit alone, now there will be 100 bucks killed total in Quilomene, Swakane, Entiat, Manson, Alta, Chilliwist,)  Then I hear well that is more area to cover for enforcement.  Solution is simple also all those areas should be patroled anyway, and bring over agents from other areas of the state.  It has been done in other hunts (Elk, Late White Tail) and saturate the units.  Cost is minimal (lodging) and everyone benefits.     
     I have no idea why you have completely attacked the archery hunters.  All the true and honest not biased and agenda driven statistics show that archery hunters kill very close to their ratio of hunter numbers.  I realize the largest portion of hunters (Modern Firearm) are complaining and accusing the archers of killing too many animals and having the best seasons.  Well there is a very easy solution instead of gutting the ability of archers.  Maybe WDFW could suggest the person change their hunting weapon choice if they think it is so easy and better another way.  They should have no complaints based on their projected views.  They get to hunt, have better seasons, and have a higher success ratio.
     
Muzzle Loaders, 
     Muzzle loader hunters have really had some poor seasons.  Other areas should give up a little to give them better and longer seasons.  This can be done without eliminating and ruining other hunting methods seasons and ability to have a quality hunting experience.     
 
Deer Permits:
     Many hunters expect to have to draw a special permit for a quality hunt in Washington.  Expand the number of special permits in some areas and weapon choices and even reduce them in others.  Special permits is a excellent way to manage Washington Deer herds.  Not only that but the WDFW makes more money that is badly needed to operate without increasing general fees even more.
 
Modern Firearm,
     Obviously WDFW has taken an extreme position of advantage to Modern Firearm hunters, and your permit changes obviously reflect this.  I would be ashamed to propose something that is so biased towards one user group when multiple user groups are involved.  You have extended some permit seasons without reducing permit numbers, and others you extended and greatly increased permit numbers.  I can not believe you think the Deer can handle this type of hunting pressure.  This will put hunters into major rut times for deer, and the numbers killed will greatly increase.  I don't think anything other then permit numbers should change.  Some areas more and some less.  Even open up other units for permits.  This area has to be handled on a unit by unit basis, and I do not have the ability to cover every single option.  Bottom line I repeat is not to extend or change the hunting time any longer just increase/decrease permit numbers and units available.  This is the best tool available to WDFW for herd management if used properly. 
 
Archery,
    What can I say here other then.......actually I can't think of anything besides profanity, and I probably have already offended some policy setters.  Profanity would only make it worse, and I want positive change not animosity. So, Please re-read what I said about Modern Firearm and apply it to Archery.  I agree the Entiat hunt needed a noticeable reduction in the 50-60% range, but not almost complete elimination in one year but other more successful hunting methods are increased. 
 
Muzzle Loader,
   Muzzle Loader hunters need more opportunity for permits.  Instead of giving the extreme increases to Modern Firearm more should go to Muzzle Loader permits.
 
Youth,
     Why can youth only go shoot a doe or a buck in general season times?  You propose only a couple tags for premium big buck opportunities.  Youth are our future, and they need to have quality animal hunts.  Show me one youth who would shoot a doe over a quality buck.  Yet you don't even give them the opportunity as the adults.  I understand the concern of the adult shooting the deer and using the youth tag on it.  Set up some specific hunts that can have the needed monitors present.  Again it is not difficult at all it just requires management and effort.  WDFW has severely fallen....no not even began to step in the right direction on youth hunting.  Of all I think managed/monitored youth hunting should be the main goal for increased quality hunting for a few years to get it to where it should be.  Without our new hunters WDFW and hunting in Washington will continue to suffer.
 
This does not even cover the fact that our Deer are being poached out of season by Indians and other poachers.  These can be reduced greatly, but it again would require effort and desire to make a change.  The current number of enforcement officers compared to 1994 should be an embarrassment to WDFW.  Sorry.....I got off topic.
 
I appreciate your consideration of what I have said.  We will be at the meeting in Ellensburg, and I want to say again these proposals are so bad we need to do nothing until it can be resolved.
 
Sincerely,
******* 

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Here is a letter I copied from Archery talk member Conlan Mcconnel with his permission to post here and also plagerize and send to WDFW.... Lets all get sending the emails and letters! 

Dear _________,

I am writing this letter to express my concern with the recent proposal to alter the elk hunting season dates in our state over the next three years. As a fair-minded individual, I feel that the current plan to alter the archery, muzzleloader, and rifle season dates are a clear representation of a misguided and ill-informed political agenda. The changes seem to be propagated by those that selfishly seek to tip the odds of hunting success in their favor (ie. only making their season more fruitful), while at the same time doing so on the premise that bowhunters are taking too many animals.
This premise is exactly why I see the motivation to change the season dates as selfish and misguided. The stats speak for themselves. From 2003-2007, bowhunters took exactly 19.32% of the state’s elk harvest while representing 19.12% of the total hunters. While during the same period, muzzleloader hunters took 17.74% of the elk and represented 14.44% of the hunters. And those hunting with modern firearm harvested 62.94% of the elk and made up 66.44% of hunters.
As these statistics clearly point out, bowhunters are not taking a disproportionate number of elk. In fact, they are nearly meeting their harvest goals to the number. The only group that saw disproportionate success [in their favor] were muzzleloader hunters. Thus the idea that muzzleloader hunters should be given an earlier early season, putting them closer to the rut, would be contrary to logic. This change would only increase the disparity amongst muzzleloader hunters and at the same time limit the success of bowhunters. By pushing up the start date of the early elk season and shortening archery elk season in general; bowhunters chances of close encounters with elk, which are generally more common during the rut, would be seriously limited. Not to mention the change would make land closures due to fire danger more of a potential limiting factor on our success.
A fair way in my mind to equalize the modern firearms harvest/hunter ratio [which is clearly the primary motivation of the changes in elk season dates] would be to introduce a limited number of special permits elk hunts during the last week of September. With a gradual introduction of these hunts, harvest statistics could be evaluated yearly to asses the impact. And thus, the adjustment to the overall number of permits could also be made accordingly.
In summary, I am simply asking to continue with the status quo in terms of the elk season dates for archery and muzzleloader hunters. There are surely other, less destructive ways to boost the success of modern firearm hunters without unfairly handicapping bowhunters.

Thank you for your consideration,

[rosscrazyelk]

I have a friend who works in government and I talked to him about these proposals and basically I was told it is a done deal. The fact that they say e mail them with our concerns is just to show face. All these meetings are just to show face.
We should of had people in there representing us before all this came out. seems the other groups did. The only way things will change is for them to loose a crap load of money, But they know that won't happen because more and more people cannot afford to go out of state with the loss of jobs and such, and they will hunt here.
The one thing I do not understand is making the late hunt for Mule deer permit only means they are going to make a *censored* load more money so why cut Game Wardens jobs and cut other programs?

[rooselk]

rosscrazyelk, just one word of clarification: we DID and DO have representatives speaking for bowhunters and working to protect our seasons. The Washington State Bowhunters, Washington State Archery Association, and Traditional Bowhunters of Washington work together as a coalition to represent interests of bowhunters before the game commission. As a matter of fact bowhunters are more organized in this state than some of the other user groups. I can tell you that the representatives from the bowhunting coalition put in an incredible amount of hours, including giving up some of their own vacation time, in order attend meetings, etc.

I will only add that numbers mean clout. That's why it is so important that bowhunters become members of WSB, WSAA, or TBW.

[rosscrazyelk]

rosscrazyelk, just one word of clarification: we DID and DO have representatives speaking for bowhunters and working to protect our seasons. The Washington State Bowhunters, Washington State Archery Association, and Traditional Bowhunters of Washington work together as a coalition to represent interests of bowhunters before the game commission. As a matter of fact bowhunters are more organized in this state than some of the other user groups. I can tell you that the representatives from the bowhunting coalition put in an incredible amount of hours, including giving up some of their own vacation time, in order attend meetings, etc.

I will only add that numbers mean clout. That's why it is so important that bowhunters become members of WSB, WSAA, or TBW.

Thanks for the info

[Tom Tamer]

I agree to most like Billy said earlier, choose your weapon then they got us divided. As for myself I truly just call myself a hunter I own all three M/L bow and Mod rifle. I pick and choose each year which I want due to different things, family, work and ares I want to hunt.While I didn't pay close attention to any one weapon choice I noticed basically they Screwed us ALL! touting how they extended early Muzzy season yet cut the late by back a week. Archery the same, rifle deer lost an entire week. while they chopped archery to accommodate a Modern tag during the rut has noting to do with archers what it has to do with is PERMITS. This State DOES NOT want you to merely buy a tag and go hunting . They want a Permit only hunt period in here. Since the general public won't stand for it they are incrementally making it that way( Slippery Slope) theory. Just as in any Gov't thing we have in this country. They'll take away your rights by hook or by crook. Whether or not a permit entry unit is a good way to manage animals( St Helens Elk) They are eroding our RIGHT to hunt. So what are we left with? Spending thousands on out of state hunts or the threat of fines if we poach by Not buying their tag. I do not condone poaching but if it comes down to it it is my right to hunt and God cares more about how I treated his animal while hunting it more than how much money I paid some Pi$$ant bureaucrat....

My two cents

[bobcat]

Not disagreeing with the intent of your post but really we don't have any "right" to hunt. Where is it written that we have that right? It isn't a right, it's a privilege. And personally I think this state would have some great hunting if they went to deer/elk hunting by permit only, no general seasons at all. We'd probably end up with enough deer under that type of management that a person could be allowed two deer tags per year.

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

thats a really bad idea, and I also think it is our right to hunt, also we already have enough deer for 2 tags a person......

[TeacherMan]

This is a great post, thanks for putting it up. Makes me feel all good inside. 

[Tom Tamer]

Not disagreeing with the intent of your post but really we don't have any "right" to hunt. Where is it written that we have that right? It isn't a right, it's a privilege. And personally I think this state would have some great hunting if they went to deer/elk hunting by permit only, no general seasons at all. We'd probably end up with enough deer under that type of management that a person could be allowed two deer tags per year.

It may not be written but it is stated in the , Declartion of Independence.  "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Unalienable means just that, just because Man(Gov't ) did not write it down Our creator still bestows those right upon us. I don't mean to make this a religous post but in Gen 9:3  states just that, we are to use the animals of the world for eating and other means.

I beleive it is a right and if we didn't live in such a left leaning State we COULD get the Gov't to amend the State constitution to say it so. Virgina did it a while back. Va. or W Va. one of them did.

[jdb]

thats a really bad idea, and I also think it is our right to hunt, also we already have enough deer for 2 tags a person......

you really think we have enough deer for two tags per person?

[mkcj]

It sounds like some people seem to think that the rut is for 1 user group only? Together we stand divided we fall!

[bowhuntin]

Not disagreeing with the intent of your post but really we don't have any "right" to hunt. Where is it written that we have that right? It isn't a right, it's a privilege. And personally I think this state would have some great hunting if they went to deer/elk hunting by permit only, no general seasons at all. We'd probably end up with enough deer under that type of management that a person could be allowed two deer tags per year.

The definition of privilege bestows us with a right. Privilege is synonomous with the word right.

Here is a definition of the word privilege.

A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. See Synonyms at right.