My buddy saw this in Goldendale Thursday

[Jonathan_S]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

[jackelope]

He said it's a Columbia Blacktail from the coastal range. Then his apology video he says no mistakes were made. It was a Blacktail, not a mule deer. Wow.

[birddogdad]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

so I understand your spin, I live in kitsap, 3 hours from Columbia and I shoot western blacktails here... a bit of research I did has (2) record book definitions:

Northwest Big Game record site, there is no classification for a "Columbia blacktail", only Mule, Cascade blacktail and western blacktail. http://www.nwbiggame.com/graphics/maps/WA_blacktail_map_lg.gif

B&C does have a Columbia blacktail and has a boundary as follows:
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook. (This is right at the 141 ALT intersection of 14, very clearly west of Goldendale). http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_boundaries.asp?area=bgRecords

[notellumcreek]

He said it's a Columbia Blacktail from the coastal range. Then his apology video he says no mistakes were made. It was a Blacktail, not a mule deer. Wow.

 Never have seen a show but after seeing this stuff all I can think is that this guy is a TOOL. Not going to hate him but he is a chump.

[Jonathan_S]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

so I understand your spin, I live in kitsap, 3 hours from Columbia and I shoot western blacktails here... a bit of research I did has (2) record book definitions:

Northwest Big Game record site, there is no classification for a "Columbia blacktail", only Mule, Cascade blacktail and western blacktail. http://www.nwbiggame.com/graphics/maps/WA_blacktail_map_lg.gif

B&C does have a Columbia blacktail and has a boundary as follows:
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook. (This is right at the 141 ALT intersection of 14, very clearly west of Goldendale). http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_boundaries.asp?area=bgRecords

Thanks for the follow up but please, let it be known that I was joking 

[jackelope]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

so I understand your spin, I live in kitsap, 3 hours from Columbia and I shoot western blacktails here... a bit of research I did has (2) record book definitions:

Northwest Big Game record site, there is no classification for a "Columbia blacktail", only Mule, Cascade blacktail and western blacktail. http://www.nwbiggame.com/graphics/maps/WA_blacktail_map_lg.gif

B&C does have a Columbia blacktail and has a boundary as follows:
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook. (This is right at the 141 ALT intersection of 14, very clearly west of Goldendale). http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_boundaries.asp?area=bgRecords

He's talking Boone and Crockett. It's not a Columbian black tail.
His bull with Barbour was not a Roosevelt by B&C standards, which he also claimed if I'm not mistaken.

[birddogdad]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

so I understand your spin, I live in kitsap, 3 hours from Columbia and I shoot western blacktails here... a bit of research I did has (2) record book definitions:

Northwest Big Game record site, there is no classification for a "Columbia blacktail", only Mule, Cascade blacktail and western blacktail. http://www.nwbiggame.com/graphics/maps/WA_blacktail_map_lg.gif

B&C does have a Columbia blacktail and has a boundary as follows:
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook. (This is right at the 141 ALT intersection of 14, very clearly west of Goldendale). http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_boundaries.asp?area=bgRecords

He's talking Boone and Crockett. It's not a Columbian black tail.
His bull with Barbour was not a Roosevelt by B&C standards, which he also claimed if I'm not mistaken.

don't know about any elk discussed but clearly it is NOT B&C or Northwest Big Game defined Columbia Blacktail, regardless genetics, it will not qualify in the area taken as such (if location is submitted). its easily 30-50 miles east of defining lines

[JDHasty]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

so I understand your spin, I live in kitsap, 3 hours from Columbia and I shoot western blacktails here... a bit of research I did has (2) record book definitions:

Northwest Big Game record site, there is no classification for a "Columbia blacktail", only Mule, Cascade blacktail and western blacktail. http://www.nwbiggame.com/graphics/maps/WA_blacktail_map_lg.gif

B&C does have a Columbia blacktail and has a boundary as follows:
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook. (This is right at the 141 ALT intersection of 14, very clearly west of Goldendale). http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_boundaries.asp?area=bgRecords

Not just west of Goldendale, sixty miles west of Goldendale. 

[JDHasty]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

so I understand your spin, I live in kitsap, 3 hours from Columbia and I shoot western blacktails here... a bit of research I did has (2) record book definitions:

Northwest Big Game record site, there is no classification for a "Columbia blacktail", only Mule, Cascade blacktail and western blacktail. http://www.nwbiggame.com/graphics/maps/WA_blacktail_map_lg.gif

B&C does have a Columbia blacktail and has a boundary as follows:
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook. (This is right at the 141 ALT intersection of 14, very clearly west of Goldendale). http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_boundaries.asp?area=bgRecords

He's talking Boone and Crockett. It's not a Columbian black tail.
His bull with Barbour was not a Roosevelt by B&C standards, which he also claimed if I'm not mistaken.

You are not mistaken

[JDHasty]

People have been back and forth on the deer in the Goldendale area for a long time, is it a Blacktail or a Mule deer or a benchleg?......who cares?

If he had a valid tag, It was in season,  He can afford a guide then good for him.   
(Did he say he was entering it in the record books?)

 Be happy Jim brought some extra revenue to the area, He seems to be a better representative for the hunting community than a lot of people on TV.....

I almost agree.  If you watch many of these "shows" you can call BS on them often.  They mostly lie by omission--(PS it was shot over apples on a ranch).  But most real hunters notice the inconsistencies.  It's reality TV and full of bull (no pun) just like we know Axemen is full of it.  Where he went overboard was repeating and stressing that this deer was a blacktail, when everyone knows they are mixed, just like those monster "blacktails" from Ca.

Do you really believe that he had any out of pocket expense for the guide?   

[JDHasty]

He said it's a Columbia Blacktail from the coastal range. Then his apology video he says no mistakes were made. It was a Blacktail, not a mule deer. Wow.

 Never have seen a show but after seeing this stuff all I can think is that this guy is a TOOL. Not going to hate him but he is a chump.

I don't even have television and have never seen the show either. 

I don't hate the guy, but that doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion regarding people who misrepresent benchlegs or mule deer as blacktail deer.  It is one thing for a neophyte to make that mistake, but this guy is supposedly expert on the subject... 

He his hunting with a guide service, is he going on their word?  But then how do you clear him when he says he is an expert on blacktail, has hunted them in Tillamook and can even smell a difference between blacktail and mule deer. 

How about the unsuspecting hunter from outside of this area (this is a show w/a national audience) who is interested in taking a nice trophy Columbia blacktail or coastal blacktail buck?  He watches the program, he is a Burnworth fan and so he gets in contact w/Twisted Horn Outfitters.  Maybe he just took up the sport of hunting within the last couple years and is just getting started. 

He takes what he thinks is a record book blacktail and then he tries to enter it in the books.  So, before a person calls and books a coastal blacktail or Columbia blacktail hunt is that individual obligated to do....... you tell me how much research before booking the trip? 

If a person calls *censored* Outfitters and asks to book a Columbia blacktail or coastal blacktail hunt something tells me that they are not going to set the record straight and will just book the trip.  Does this Burnworth bear any moral responsibility for someone mistakenly booking a trophy Columbia blacktail or coastal blacktail hunt in Goldendale?  Heck, a guy from Nebraska isn't going to know that Goldendale is considered central Washington. 



"text removed due to threat of lawsuit"

[2labs]

I just realized, my shop is full of booner "blacktails". I should be famous!!!
I thought I was Joe average mule deer guy. I'm a Blacktail trophy god.

[cbond3318]

I just realized, my shop is full of booner "blacktails". I should be famous!!!
I thought I was Joe average mule deer guy. I'm a Blacktail trophy god.

On the contrary Edward, one must be able to smell the difference to reach godly status.

[2labs]

Buzz kill


15 minutes! That's all I wanted!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

"Columbia Blacktail" maybe that refers to being within 2 hours of the Columbia River 

so I understand your spin, I live in kitsap, 3 hours from Columbia and I shoot western blacktails here... a bit of research I did has (2) record book definitions:

Northwest Big Game record site, there is no classification for a "Columbia blacktail", only Mule, Cascade blacktail and western blacktail. http://www.nwbiggame.com/graphics/maps/WA_blacktail_map_lg.gif

B&C does have a Columbia blacktail and has a boundary as follows:
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook. (This is right at the 141 ALT intersection of 14, very clearly west of Goldendale). http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_boundaries.asp?area=bgRecords

He's talking Boone and Crockett. It's not a Columbian black tail.
His bull with Barbour was not a Roosevelt by B&C standards, which he also claimed if I'm not mistaken.

Boone and Crockett may have their rules for inclusion, but they aren't the defining factor on what is and isn't a Columbian Blacktail or a Roosevelt elk. Their I-5 line for Roosevelts is dumb.  I'd like to see the tail on that deer. If it's got a blacktail tail, I have no problem with him calling it a blacktail.

But that said, he claimed he was in the coast range when he was far from it.  He was either lying or being evasive. Both are signs that something isn't on the up and up, maybe even not totally legal.

I'm not going to give him any credit as a hunter either if he needs to hire a guide to get the job done.