OR Snowmobilers Use Heavy Equipment/Damage Forest Lands

[WAcoyotehunter]

So we're pretty much all in agreement that it's OK to take heavy equipment up into public forests and make "improvements".  Interesting discussion.

That's sad to see. 

I suspect if it was thier private property the damage would be more meaningful

[pianoman9701]

So we're pretty much all in agreement that it's OK to take heavy equipment up into public forests and make "improvements".  Interesting discussion.

That's sad to see. 

I suspect if it was thier private property the damage would be more meaningful

That's the problem I have. It is our property and it was intentionally misused for the benefit of one group of people, regardless of the actual extent of "damage". This will tell other snowmobilers and ATV-ers that this is OK to do as long as they pretend they didn't know any better.

[7mmstalker]

Those photos don't show the type of land disturbance and resource damage consistent with the level of outrage, or accusation.
Yes, dirt was moved, yes some trees died. But seriously, how significant is this? Consider the MILLIONS of acres of land our government has gated and locked from any use other than hiking and photography. Primarily to appease special interest groups, specifically the ones that demonize and hate ANY MOTORIZED RECREATION.
Living in Whatcom County for close to 15 years, watching the few ORV areas that were "government approved" reduced to almost nothing made me sick.
Sultan Basin, Moses Lake Dunes, areas around Cle-elum and north of Spokane once allowed for safe, accessible off-road recreation. All of those users are shut out, or concentrated in very small congested high traffic "parks".
Motorized vehicles do disturb the dirt, so does MT biking and farming!
The environmental movement is clearly distorting public perception. Alarmist tactics and relying on widespread ignorance of the "big picture" gets them the emotional response and public support.
Perhaps if more people understood the enormous amount of PUBLIC LAND that is already dedicated to Wilderness status, National Parks, "Roadless Areas" logging and mining moratoriums, etc. etc.
It is great that we are finding better ways to build homes with manufactured beams and plywood, recycling metals and plastics seems like a win-win deal as well.
I think we, as a society, should also accept that humans are going to have an impact on the environment we live in.
Trying to keep humanity out of the environment is an extreme position.

"All things in moderation."

[KFhunter]

Looks like they pushed over a couple " pecker poles " and one old, previous cut stump was in the picture. I know if there was a huge area that WAS messed up, there would be aerial pictures, graphs etc. If the green group, Oregon Wild is complaining, have them volunteer their time, instead of bitching and not doing squat until after the fact.which is typical with the " greenies world "..

   They could have just left it alone this year and part of next years contract would include fixing a couple things like the holes and removing the trees they pushed over. 
Can't do that though, gotta appease the tree huggers which BTW will do everything they can to get snowmobiles shut down. (and hunting, and ATV's and anything not human powered)

Tree huggers or not...
throw out the legal binding contract and let everyone break the law???

My argument is based on the premise that the gov knew what was going on but threw the snowmobile club under the bus when Oregon wild threw a fit. The gov probably tried to turn a blind eye to the trail widening job because there wasn't any environmental assessments done; but when caught they had plausible deniability and took the easy way out to avoid costly litigation.  "the snowmobile club didn't follow the contract but $200k will fix it"   It would explain the snowmobile club's bewilderment at the mixed messages. 

This is just my guess. It's the only thing that makes since.  The fed and state is usually all over things when heavy equipment is moving on public lands, I can't imagine they had no idea this was happening.

[Special T]

 
Sounds like the most reasonable guess to me. 

[Humptulips]

After looking at the pictures I would say any damage is pretty inconsequential. I compare this with what I see when the FS does a decommissioning project. That is OK though I guess because they have the right paperwork in hand.
I saw this so many times while working on the FS. It is all about paperwork. If you don't have it you are going to be damned. The guy thought he had it and everything would have been OK if a third party would not have gotten involved.
Couple years go by and you won't be able to tell anybody did anything.
Mountain out of a molehill.

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

So we're pretty much all in agreement that it's OK to take heavy equipment up into public forests and make "improvements".  Interesting discussion.

They didn't just take heavy machinery up to the public forest and make improvements. The state paid for the freekin rental. They knew what was happening.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

  Exactly.   I don't snow machine but why do you need all these wide groomed trails ? Is it really a wussy sport or what? I would think you would want blaze your own trails through the snow?

[CAMPMEAT]

How can the STATE, have any control over a Federal job, Pman ? The states, Washington, have been known to steal OUR taxes from the snowmobile/ATV funds and put it in the general fund, which was illegal. I think even though we get OUR money, from that fund for trails, the state doesn't control the projects we work on.

I mispoke. The Feds not the State. The issue here has nothing to do with either WA or money being stolen from the general fund. Those are separate issues.

The reason why I said, state funds stolen, is because it was stated that the state paid for the rental, if I remember what was said correctly, that's all. I did not re-read the the OP to be fair. I just got home..

[KFhunter]

So we're pretty much all in agreement that it's OK to take heavy equipment up into public forests and make "improvements".  Interesting discussion.

They didn't just take heavy machinery up to the public forest and make improvements. The state paid for the freekin rental. They knew what was happening.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

  Exactly.   I don't snow machine but why do you need all these wide groomed trails ? Is it really a wussy sport or what? I would think you would want blaze your own trails through the snow?

Dude, you've no idea...

The groomed trail system is extremely popular, if you go back east you'll find people that don't even drive a car in the winter everything's done off the groomed trail system, miles upon miles of winter riding, bar hopping, ice fishing, grocery runs you name it.  Out here in the west the groomed trails are mostly scenic in nature and see a good bit of use, in some areas the trail system is overloaded with people.  It brings huge revenue to rural areas of the state that would other wise starve for tourist dollars in the winter.  I suspect this area in question see's a lot of pleasure riding on the groomed trails. 

I mostly ride in Canada where a groomed trail is far and few between, imagine 5 to 20 miles of humps up to 4 feet tall and about 6 feet apart.  Makes moguls on a dirt bike track look tame in comparison.  It's a huge pile of suck after a mile or two, but the reward is great if you can throttle through all that and make it to the steep and deep..and not be worn out time you get there 

For people like me the groomed trail system is just a way to get to the mountains where the snow is actually deep enough to ride off the trails.  Some areas it's illegal to leave the trails, all depends on where you are it's confusing at times to know if you can or can't go off the trail.  My fun starts where the trees can no longer grow due to elevation. 

One of these days you should take a weekend and rent some sleds and go for a ride, you'll see things you'd never see otherwise. 

[follow maggie]

Hmmm. The trees shown in the picture as shoved to the side of the road looked like they were dead. The big tree in the picture with people trying to roll it looks like it was rotted from the inside. If they ruined some culverts, have them pay for that. Nature will handle the rest in due time. It's  not like there aren't any other trees around. As far as ruining archeological site? Please!

[ICEMAN]

Interesting post and article.

Is trail maintenance (construction) any worse than logging, or a hillside collapsing due to mother nature, or a heavy rain storm? Last time I checked, mountains slowly dissolve overtime, cascading down dirt, silt, gravel and boulders, into the land surrounding the mountains. If humans did not exist, rivers would still be muddy after heavy rain. Hillsides would still slide. Forests would burn.

I think they way, way way over worried this. I would rather they would have spent the 40k investigating/estimating this incident on tearing open more roads to get more people into the woods. All I see is land being let to go wild, roads ripped out by DNR and returned to a more "natural" existence, all to the disadvantage of the taxpayers. It used to be that the state would open opportunity for us, now they eliminate it.