Ethical to shoot past 400 yards at elk w/AR15 based rifle? Yes/No

[JDHasty]

How about at mule deer at ranges closing on 500 yards? 

Notice I say AR15 based rifle and in this I explicitly want to not include AR10 based rifles that handle 308 Winchester based cartridges in this discussion. 

AR15 based rifles handle cartridges that are based on native cartridge brass that ranges in size UP to 7.62X39 or 30 Remington. 

What say you? 

[Special T]

Since a 6.5grendal has308 ballistics I'd say yes. Olympic arms makes some kind of 30 oly round that supposedly works well. There are a few other good AR based chamberings out there. Nothing supper common in ammo. IMO the 6.5  Grendel based off the 7.62x39 case is likely the most "common" caliber due to case.

[JimmyHoffa]

Right shooter, sure.  Especially the WSSMs.  Wouldn't recommend it for a beginner, but that's just me.

[coachcw]

If shooter and weapon can shoot 1/2 moa or better at that distance .

[kentrek]

If shooter and weapon can shoot 1/2 moa or better at that distance .

1/2 moa @ 4-5 hundred ?? Thatd be tough in some hunting scenarios...but it'd get the job done ! No doubt the rifle could do it

[Buzz2401]

Where do you get a 6.5 grendel has 308 ballistics?  Everything I see has it way below in energy and/or velocity.
Factory loads for a 6.5 put a 123gr bullet at 2600fps and 1800ft/lbs  while a factory 308 puts a 150gr at 2900fps and 2900ft/lbs.

That is not even close.  Keep drinking the Kool aid.  The 6.5 Grendel is a nice little round but it sure doesn't compare to a 308 or any other 308 based cartridge.  As to the OP no I don't personally feel you can get enough energy out of a ar-15 based cartridge to reliably kill big game out past 200yards.  But that is not to say it hasn't been done cause I am sure it has, but it leaves alot of room for lost game.

[257wbymagkiller]

The right caliber and bullet choice along with good bullet placement it could be done.

[Special T]

There is a thread on here about the military replacing the 556 I believe the graph is in that thread.  It has better long range ballistics and similar ballistics out to 4-500 if memory serves correct.

[zike]

In a word NO. It might get to 400+ yards, but its not going to have much when it gets there. I ran it thru Thornily's table and its half as much gun as needed for an elk.

[jay.sharkbait]

That's right at the max for what I'd feel comfortable doing.

[JDHasty]

The right caliber and bullet choice along with good bullet placement it could be done.

Of course it "could be done" if by that you mean could you kill an elk at north of 400 yards with it.  What I am asking is: is it ethical to attempt to do so? 

[jay.sharkbait]

The right caliber and bullet choice along with good bullet placement it could be done.

Of course it "could be done" if by that you mean could you kill an elk at north of 400 yards with it.  What I am asking is: is it ethical to attempt to do so?

Ethics is something I won't apply to others.

If you feel comfortable doing it and have the skills...Go for it!

[JDHasty]

Where do you get a 6.5 grendel has 308 ballistics?  Everything I see has it way below in energy and/or velocity.
Factory loads for a 6.5 put a 123gr bullet at 2600fps and 1800ft/lbs  while a factory 308 puts a 150gr at 2900fps and 2900ft/lbs.

That is not even close.  Keep drinking the Kool aid.  The 6.5 Grendel is a nice little round but it sure doesn't compare to a 308 or any other 308 based cartridge.  As to the OP no I don't personally feel you can get enough energy out of a ar-15 based cartridge to reliably kill big game out past 200yards.  But that is not to say it hasn't been done cause I am sure it has, but it leaves alot of room for lost game.

Those pretty well are the same thoughts I have on the subject.  When I read a thread where a guy is claiming a large mule deer at 496 yards and a spike elk at 411 yards I was wondering how many head of big game this guy has wounded and lost to the coyotes over the years. 

To be honest, it impressed me that Elmer Keith was probably not anyone I would want to associate with when I read his stories about banging away at trophy class big game animals with a six-gun at ranges that a guy with a thirty-thirty with open sights would have a huge problem accurately placing a shot at. 

[JDHasty]

In a word NO. It might get to 400+ yards, but its not going to have much when it gets there. I ran it thru Thornily's table and its half as much gun as needed for an elk.

That is pretty much what my calculations put it at.  I was wondering if I missed something. 

[JDHasty]

The right caliber and bullet choice along with good bullet placement it could be done.

Of course it "could be done" if by that you mean could you kill an elk at north of 400 yards with it.  What I am asking is: is it ethical to attempt to do so?

Ethics is something I won't apply to others.

If you feel comfortable doing it and have the skills...Go for it!

I won't return to Montana with a guy who was banging away at prairie dogs with a 10/22 at 200+ yards.  I have no problem with anyone shooting prairie dogs, or rock chucks or elk with a cartridge and firearm combination that will reliably and humainly kill them at the distance being shot, but I cannot stomach being in the presence of an individual who is shooting at animals at distances with a firearm/cartridge that make a large number of wounded and lost animals an almost certainty. 

I guess you and I are just wired a bit different in that regard.