New Elk Starving Videos Mt Saint Helens.

[Tom Tamer]

I keep seeing over and over the talk of too long of hunting seasons, yes that would contribute if it were an over populated hunt, but that isn't the case there are too few permits given out and if it is hard hunted how many really get far off any road? What happens back east when they get over run by whitetails? they kill off the population until it can equalize oout to the habitat it lives in. Thw WDFW is failing to control the population in a manner that is for positive conservation of this herd. I still feel they fail to admit this and with presures from an ignorant anti hunting populus. Until they go in aclear out the herd to a managable level we'll just be throwing away money on feed that could be used in other areas

[gasman]

I keep seeing over and over the talk of too long of hunting seasons, yes that would contribute if it were an over populated hunt, but that isn't the case there are too few permits given out and if it is hard hunted how many really get far off any road? What happens back east when they get over run by whitetails? they kill off the population until it can equalize oout to the habitat it lives in. Thw WDFW is failing to control the population in a manner that is for positive conservation of this herd. I still feel they fail to admit this and with presures from an ignorant anti hunting populus. Until they go in aclear out the herd to a managable level we'll just be throwing away money on feed that could be used in other areas

Good point, many areas back east have a bag limit of multiple bag limit for harvesting the over abundunce of wildlife.

[bbarnes]

HuntBear,

The blame falls on the WDFW. They are allowing over persuit of these animals.

I think we are on the same team here.

"Our vision would be to secure a future of recreational opportunities for our wilderness areas in Southwest Washington for hunting, snowmobiling, horseback riding, hiking, ATV riding, etc."

-Mt. Saint Helens Rescue

[bbarnes]

Raising awareness is one thing and bringing up habitat loss and such is something I agree with.  However, blaming us hunters for being part of the problem, when our purchases, fund habitat, and our game taking relieves some of the pressure on less habitat, is wrong!   

You want to point the blame, point it where it belongs, at the government, and the liberal mentality.  Elk need food, they eat grass.  Grass will not grow in standing timber, only in open areas, clearcuts, etc.....  Ban logging in this country and the elk habitat dies.  The reason elk have flourished in years past is due to logging operations clearing the land, so grass can grow until the newly planted trees grow. By the time new trees kill off the grass and vegetation, there are new clearcuts, and open areas with lots of feed.  It is funny(not really) that most of the starving elk are coming out of the National Forest?  While elk on Weyerhauser and other private timber company land are flourishing for the most part? 

Guess I need to get off my soapbox now.

I agree HuntBear, that a lot of environmentalist's have paralyzed the logging industry in this country. But that is due in part to poor logging practices. There needs to be a happy medium. Timber owners should be responsible for the fish and wildlife on their property. They should be creating new habitat and allowing access to hunters to hunt these animals that are owned by the state tax payers.


There maybe more elk on the Weyerhauser and Private Timber Company Land but they are not healthy. A reduction in antler size, hoof rot and joint degeneration in these elk, lead me to believe that there is something else (besides starvation) that is wrong with these animals. And since there hasn't been a study done on these elk since the mid 80's, how will we ever know what is really wrong with them.

We appreciate your comments and your support in keeping our public land public.
 

[Skinner]

For you eastside guys us westsiders have to get alfalfa delivered from your side.  I paid $180 a ton this fall when I bought 25 tons.  If we were to get it from the feed store today which sounds like they are it is $20-$23 dollars a bale! (in Castle Rock)  50 lb grass bales are 5-6 dollars each.  200 a ton.  Just for clarification!

[bbarnes]

Can you answer any of the concerns that we are asking about?  We all want to help the elk, but we don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot either.

Frank down. I don't think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot for lending a helping hand to this natural resource.Thanks B Barnes keeping our public lands public.

[KillzElk]

I like where bbarnes is going with this , I am sure glad to see some answered post by him.. Great news ..

[FrankDown]

What Im getting at is that you said in your video that hunters are responsible for the starvation of the elk.  You have skirted this in the several emails that I sent to you or have not addressed it at all.

I consideer it shooting myself in the foot to give money to someone who badmouths hunters, who are not the responsible party in your issue to begin with.

You can use the starving elk point to try to make me feel guilty but you are advocating anti hunting in your guise to save the elk.

This still hasnt answered anything or addressed the issue that he blames hunters for being responsible for starving the elk.

[Huntbear]

HuntBear,

The blame falls on the WDFW. They are allowing over persuit of these animals.

I think we are on the same team here.

"Our vision would be to secure a future of recreational opportunities for our wilderness areas in Southwest Washington for hunting, snowmobiling, horseback riding, hiking, ATV riding, etc."

-Mt. Saint Helens Rescue

I agree to a point, but your video says over hunting, not that the WDFW are to blame, that to me and even to my liberal anti hunting aquaintances means hunters are to blame..  maybe fix that, so that it does not sound like you are blaming the hunters.  As for over pursuit, in the Coweeman, and Winston, maybe, but remember, most of those elk only see hunters on weekends when the gates are open.  As for the Lewis, that unit is the unit I have hunted the most over my life for elk.  I hunt there when I can due to lack of hunting pressure.  Because I can get up in the hills and never see another hunter.  Now, the Margaret, and Toutle are draw only, with very limited access.  The Loowit is where all the Local elk go to get away from hunters.  They then keg up in there with limited food, and the WDFW thinks it is great. 

And we just sit by and let the WDFW keep killing off our resources.  We get fined and a prison sentence for killing elk out of season, maybe we should charge Olympia and throw a few of them in jail.

I am not saying what you are doing is wrong.  I just have a real issue with what you put on YouTube, and your wording on why this happens.

As for all the joint problems, etc.... maybe they need to quit spraying pesticides and fertilizers... they never used to do that, and all was well. 

As for hoof rot, any animal that lives in a wet, swampy environment or stands in wet, mucky, muddy ground will get it(even people).  I have seen blacktail that live in the swampy areas, with it.  Heck, I have seen horses get it standing in the corral when it got muddy.

I do know that the federal logging practices ie... not logging at all, contributes to all of this.  One part of the Lewis unit that I love to hunt, was being logged piece at a time for about 5 years in a row, then the spotted owl sh!t came along, and other liberal agendas.  They quit logging in that area, now the elk population is dropping there, due to lack of feed, open spaces (that elk need) and no winter graze, because they quit logging.  Then the Forest Service does land swaps with private timber companies, and the cycle starts all over again.

Then you add in the people (and I am not bashing here) that ride their motorcycles on our trail systems, some in prime elk calving areas, or summer feeding grounds, or breeding areas, or wintering areas.  Maybe those motorcycles get the animals worked up too??  Keep them from the peace and quiet! 

Now, lets talk snowmobilers.  Again, not bashing anyone, but they want to run around on their piece of the mountain too.  What does that do for the health of the wintering elk population?

How about cross country skiers???  Summer hikers and campers in calving/feeding areas? Or, how about people taking pack trains into the mountains?  Are they not upsetting the elk as well?

All I am saying is that is not just a hunting issue.... yes, we are the ones fighting the cause, but we are not the only people using the resources, and "stressing" the elk herds.

We may be fighting the same fight, but the words we all use have to be carefully chosen, otherwise, we are giving the wrong impressions to people everywhere, especially when it is on YouTube, and the internet.

[bbarnes]

Ok KillzElk, from my experience dealing with special interest groups and wording here is my take on teh way his website it worded and what his words are.

Mt Helens preservation - (The name states preservation which means no use by definition) Preservation means no use.  No hunting, no target shooting, no hiking, no or limited camping, etc.

His wording in the video states that hunters are a predominate cause of the starvation.

This is my interpretation of his words directly from his mouth and website.  I am not the only one that apparently thinks this also.  

His heart may be inthe right place, but his words are not.  If he in fact wants to help conservation methods to help the elk and get that help from hunters and outdoorsmen perhaps a better angle can be approached.  As it stands it sounds to  me like the many hundreds of animal rights websites that seek to keep hunters out of "their" areas.

I asked him to reiterate his views on this site and in emails and it has been skirted.  So until I am sure I am not funding an animal rights agenda I cannot support him.  I can do what I can do, but I cant fund animal rights lobbys who alrady gain 300 million dollars a year to keep us out of "their" areas.  300 million dollars will buy a lot of hay and alfalfa but generally the money doesnt go to these kinds of issues, it goes to building corporate offices, summer homes, and BMWs.

It is unfortunate that the elk are in the position they are in and that a certain area will only hold so many animals.  That being said we dont know, or I dont know, what they push for in their "private" meetings.  We have enough problems without supporting groups that are fighting against our privileges to hunt.  Once again it is unfortunate that the elk are stuck in this predicament, but if the groups are not supportive of hunting and conservation methods then perhaps another group or agency should be targeted to help.

Once again if someone from the groups wants to clarify what they are saying I will listen.  I have asked a couple times already to clarify their stance on hunting and sportmsmen but have received nothing. To me however their mission statement is unclear on what side of the fence they are on as far as hunting and sportsmen are concerned.

 Frank down.We are in complete support of hunting and conservation,any good hunter is a conservationist,we are the eyes and voice for these recouces that cant speak out.My group is made up of sportsman that dont want to see locked gates and subdivsions in our forest areas where we hunt camp and shoot our guns. I would also like to add we are not a animal rights group,we just think theres a over presuit problem.What we mean is wdfw selling tags and multiple seasons in one unit trying to bail themselves out of debt.This is what we call combat hunting, not a quality hunt.I hope this has clarified your concerns thanks B Barnes keeping our public land public.  PS by the way i drive FORDS

[Guns4Fun]

So BBarnes.....you really don't think hunters are to blame for the starving elk?

Please clarify.

[KillzElk]

I am trying to understand the whole point here, I also have been to some meetings that went over all this.I am not the voice of him Just want to be able to hunt still. I guess that I have a open mind and don't want to lose the rights I do have . Just because I don't post right away . 

[KillzElk]

Yes can you define that to clear this up Please draw it out.
Thank You.

[Huntbear]

I still have not seen one thing that where they say they are PRO hunting, anti liberal preservists...

[KillzElk]

Anyone else notice how many questions this bbarnes is not answering??? Or the fact that KillzElk has only posted to this thread and is like the voice of bbarnes?!?! Something is very fishy about this whole thing! 

I guess the reason I am only on this thread is because I was at the snow park snowmobiling at the MT. received some info on this subject starving elk. I am a hunter , I want to hunt every year a healthy animal this is what interested me . Guess I am a newbie here I will find another topic that interest me also..

Thank you so much.