Unethical Hunter episode????

[bearhunter59]

Reading another thread got me fired up and thinking about an episode I had 2 years ago while out elk-hunting and figured I'd post the details of the event, as well as, give others a chance to post details of any unethical hunting events they have knowledge of.

Opening day down on the Lewis River.  I have been out tramping around in the woods since well before sunrise, since this is walkin only area.  Finally, about 45 minutes before sunset, and I have this small 3x3 walk out into the area I was in, about 75yds away.  I get a good shot off on the boy, he staggers and falls, gets back up and runs about 100yds out into the middle of the river.  I've got my gun up on him just waiting for him to come up and out on the island in the river, cuz I didn't want to have to try and drag him out of the water, when all of a suddent it sounds like a freakin warzone.  Four hunters on the other side of the river started taking shots at my bull.  The bull had started running again, and I put one in the back of his head just as he was coming up out of the water, onto the bank.  I take off out into the knee-high water, and get out to the island.  I get there and see the elk laying mostly in the water on bank of the otherside of the river, with a submerged log the only thing keeping him from floating down the river.  Looking it over quickly, I realize there is no way I'll be able to get the elk out of the river on that bank, so I take some parachute cord out of my pack and tie one end around the horns, and the other end around a big log on the island I was on.  I then manage to push the elk enough to get it unstuck from the log and let the water current drift him over to the bank on the island.  I then spend about 20-30 minutes trying to wrestle him up out of the water on to the bank, but due to the steepness of the gravel bank, and coldness of the water, I just could get him out of the water.  I even gutted him while in the river, figuring that would make him lighter, but it still wasn't enough.
The whole time I am fighting with this thing in the freezing cold water, the four hunters have walked up within 20 yard, on the bank of the river and have just been sitting there watching me.  Finally, after about 30 minutes they wander out on to the island, and come up and say, "Hey, you know that's our elk?"  My response was, "HOW THE F@%^K DO YOU FIGURE THAT A$^%^$#?  IT'S MY ELK!  I SHOT HIM FIRST! AND I PUT THE LAST SHOT IN HIM THAT PUT HIM DOWN!  AND....THATS MY TAG ON THE HORNS!" (I forgot to mention, that was the first thing I did once I floated him over to the island.)
They said they didn't know I had shot AT him in the woods, and didn't beleive when he was standing in the river that he had been hit, so they figure they put the kill shot in him.  Needless to say, we had a pretty heated "discussion" for a few minutes.  The sun was starting to go down, and I had to get back across to my side of the river before it got too dark, otherwise I wouldn't be able to cross the river that night.  Since they were camping in the edge of the clearing about 200 yds away, they said they'd take it back to their camp that night and I could bring the game warden down there tomorrow and we'd let him decide who's elk it was.  Seems how it was getty pretty dark, and I was out gunned 4-1, I didn't see that I had much choice.
I spent the next two days trying to get the game wardens to go down to their camp with me and get my elk back to no avail.  I was able to get them to actually get out of their truck and walk about 5 minutes into the woods before they turned around and said they're not gonna spend all day walking in the woods, so if I can go down and find the camp and have them bring the animal up to the Eagle Cliff store, then they'd decide what to do.
I ended up walking down to their camp and the guy who was claiming he killed it tells me he'll give me $100 to cover the cost of a replacement tag and my time lost not hunting if I'll just drop it and let him take the elk.
At this point, I figure since it was just a little 3-point that now has about 3-4 holes in him, and I didn't want to waste anymore hunting time and still not end up with the animal, that I would take his money and go get me another tag.  Which is what I did.  Took his money, drove the 45 minutes back to Cougar, went in the store and paid $10 for a replacement tag.  I then went back out and two days later shot a nice 5x5 within 50 yds of where I shot the 3x3 three days earlier.

Before any of you claim I did something illegal by getting a replacement tag, I checked with the game wardens before I did and they said it was OK.

Anyway, I was and still am pissed about hunters like that...that will start shooting at an animal that someone else is trying to harvest.  That is no more ethical than if you were just about to land a big salmon and I walked up and netted him while still attached to your hook and line and saying it's mine because he's in my net.  I have heard numerous storys just like mine many times, but I just thought I would never find myself in that situation.  Heck,  purposely walk in a long ways, just to get away from everyone else.

Some would say I should put myself in the other hunters place, and I'd probably do the same thing.  WRONG!  The fact of the matter is, I have been in that situation before.  Just a year or two prior to my episode, I was out hunting elk and heard some shots really close by, and then had a nice elk come busting through the woods my way.  I had a good shot at him and could have dropped that beast, but I let it go by because I could see it had already been hit and knew that was the animal someone else had already shot at.  The bull ran off, and the hunter came by a minute or two later asking if I had seen his elk and I pointed him in the direction the bull had went.  I followed a few minutes later, and found the hunter and his elk a little further off in the woods.  Now, I could have easily shot that bull and tagged it before the other hunter had a chance to get there, but I didn't.  And I couldn't!  That just ain't right.

Anyway, let's hear how many of you others have had something similar happen to you....

[tlbradford]

I am not going to judge you on anything you did.  You worked out everything to your's and the warden's satisfaction.  The only question I have is if the guy who ended up with the elk put his tag on it.  If so, than everything seems legal in regards to you getting a new tag.  It is a shame that the warden was not more help in the beginning.

I have a different philosophy when it comes to shooting animals someone is trying to harvest.  I will kill an animal that is wounded and has been shot by someone else if I have an oppurtunity.  I have done this with 3 deer and one elk.  Two of the deer ended up being a hunting partners so obviously no conflict there.  I don't want to stake a claim to the animal, just see it dead as humanely as possible.  On the other two animals noone come up to me and all pissed off that I had made the final killing shot.  Both were thankful.  If anyone did not want to tag the animal I would have been glad to do so.

[bearhunter59]

TL, I have no problems with your position.  I have no problem with someone dispatching an animal for humane reasons such as you stated.  But, when someone else has wounded an animal and is trying to finish the job, and you shoot with the intent of claiming  it as yours, that is unethical in my opinion.  It might not be illegal to do that, but it doesn't make it right either, in my opinion.  But, if you shoot with the sole intent of just assisting the original shooter with dispatching the animal as humanely as possible, then that is different.  Has to do with intent...

And by the way, the only way I was going to let that guy have that elk, was if he notched his tag...which I verified was notched before I took the money and left.

[Wea300mag]

This type of thing happens a lot especially here in WA where all the "Seattle Hunters" put in their 2 days of hunting every year on the opening weekend of deer hunting season. A few years ago in an area on the Snake River I crawled for an hour to the top of the breaks during opening day to get to my favorite spot at first light. As soon as it was shooting light WWIII began. It wasn't long before I heard two shots just over the hill from me, the guy came running up and asked if I seen his deer come over. I said no and we walked back to look over the edge and the deer jumped up in front of me at about 30 yds and boy did it have headgear. I could see that one of his hind quarters was hit so I stepped out of the way and let the other hunter finish him off. It ended up being a tall symmetric 4x4 with eyeguards that measured 27-1/2". The area was decimated by then so I decided to help him drag it out. On the way out, we saw a grandma type shoot a small 3 pt, the deer got up and hobbled about 40 yards before either the lady and yet another hunter finished it (they both shot twice). Those two argued for several minutes and ended up dragging theirs out with the one we were dragging. Later that day the Gamie came to my camp and asked what I saw, I told him, and he gave the deer to the lady. The deer was shot up pretty bad though.

I almost took up bow hunting after that day.

[Ray]

People are possessive about animals they believe they have made the kill on. They are also the same way about animals they believe they are intending to finish the job on; as in "still pursuing". It will always be so.

There is honestly some room for gray area in the examples proposed here and I was not there and so I will not feel compelled to monday night quarterback all of the situations and expect to get them right..

[LongTatLaw]

Hey bear,

Besides my recent elk adventures...I had a situation in Georgia a few years ago. In GA you may hunt with a bow during rifle and black powder season. I choose to do so pretty often. Well, I was hunting on an active Duty Army base (FT Stewart) in December... 2 months after bow only season ended. Any way, one morning I heard a rifle shot not 150 yards from me (common on a very very over hunted piece of "public" land). Well, a few seconds after the shot a little bodied 6pt buck (thats a 3x3 to you...lol) came busting through... when he got into my little clearing I tried grunting at him but when that didnt work I yelled "hey you" at him...lol

He stopped at 35 yards and I let go an arrow that made a beautiful broadside heart pass through!!!  It wasn't a monster buck but I had 9 deer tags left and only about two weeks to use em. (GA allows 10 does and 2 bucks per year )

Well, the buck went down in sight of my tree stand...I always love that! Well, as I climbing down out of the tree a hunter showed up. Probably a 50 year old male. He asked if I had seen a "MONSTER 6 PT buck"  lol

I said yes I had seen "A" 6 pt. and shot it. Well there the argument started. He demanded I was trying to steal his monster buck. Well, I thought it would be easy to settle unless there was a bullet hole I didnt see before I shot. If there was...I was gonna hand over the MONSTER buck...

I asked where he shot it...   RIGHT IN THE NECK! He said he could see blood pouring out as it ran off. He was using a 30'06.

Well, we walked up to the buck and the only hole was the heart shot but upon the inspection he demanded the one hole was his gun shot not my arrow... which was in my hand...dripping with blood from end to end.

Well, he grabbed the buck and started dragging. Well, although the deer wasn't a monster to me... the hunters attitude was bad start to finish and Ill tell ya if ya havent seen from my postings...attitude goes a LONG WAY with me!

So, i starting arguing with him and then we agreed to cut open the wound. He insisted it would be all destroyed inside and then Id know the truth...lol  So I let him cut it open...clean beautiful arrow damage but no 30'06 hole...

He still wanted to argue until I offered to let him "earn" the buck by kicking my ass...lol   he didnt want it that bad and he left. But, someone less confident would have back down from that bulley and gave up a deer they clearly killed.

PS- the MONSTER 6pt was weighed and measured at the deer check station by the GA DNR and his LIVE WEIGHT was 117 pounds and his massive 3x3 rack had nearly 14 inches of inside spread...lol
but he did taste fine!

As for your situation. I am months off of 30 years old but INFANTRY fuel still runs strong in me... So I probably would have made those 4 boys beat the hell out of me...lol

probably the exact same result as what you did... but its just the fact of the matter..and kicking my ass would have added to their hunting story...lol    but I love that you got a bigger bull from the same area the same week!!

next time that happens...call me... Ill help with the 4 boys just for a look at this hunting spot of yours..lol

[Lets Hunt]

I have a story that got me steamed. Last year during general season i spent all morning glassing and finaly spoted two three deer walking up a draw one about 20 yards behind the others. A very good sign. I start looking for the best way to intercept and get a better look at this group. when i spot a fourth deer coming out of the bottom of the draw alone. Another good sign. I start working my way towards them slowly stoping to glass often. By this time the deer following the firt two stopes and starts watching the fourth deer coming up. I'am getting very excited. I'am still not close enogh to see any points but i'am sure they are bucks (this reminds me i need better binocs). This is the point when i notice Three other hunters watching me sneeking along the ridge. I didn't worry much because i knew from where they where they count not see what i was lookin at so i continued on. The two bucks (i'am pretty sure now) are circling each other the other two have walked off about 50-60 yards and started eating. After about an hour or so i'am close enogh to see two nice bucks rattleing horns but need to get within range still. a take a look around and notice the hunters that where watching me are gone. I look around some more and see they are above me about 200 yards and closing fast. I pick up the pace a little but it's no use the Yahoos behind me kicked a rock and made enogh noise to wake the dead. Both bucks imediatly look up and see them coming and dart off. One of the other guys took a shot over my head had to be at least 800 to 900 yards @ a fast moving target. Of corse he missed and I'am pissed I tried to catch up with them later but never did find them again. While they did nothing illegal i have to say it was RUDE at the least. not just ruining my stock but shooting over my head. later that day a drove by them they waved i did not then they fliped me the bird (guess they though i was being rude). A$$h0!3S

[Coasthunterjay]

I almost took up bow hunting after that day.

    
 ROFL

[high country]

theese are exactly why I hunt where I do. If I am around people I tend to neck shoot and act all kind of goofy when they approach me......works good.

[ICEMAN]

Carry a banjo, that will scare them off.....if not, it should scare you off...   

[Blacklab]

Carry a banjo, that will scare them off.....if not, it should scare you off...  

dueling bango's

[sisu]

I am so glad I've never run into this situation. My good friend, Rick, from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan was hunting with his 357 back in the 90s. He takes deer with bows, rifles, revolvers etc. Anyway he is in an area we call Bobcat blind when he sees a doe laying down behind a log and looking off in the other direction. He did not want a doe but was interested in why she was not more attentive. To make a long story short she was shot in the front upper leg which was dangling and useless.
After he sees this he shots her, she wanders off and dies. He then dresses her out but does not tag her right then and there. Instead he walks out to the road, does a 360 degree walk looking for vehicles, foot prints, camp sites etc. After about 40 minutes he goes back  to the doe, tags her and proceeds to haul her out to his truck. As he neared his truck he runs into 4 guys. One of them yells hey, "He's got my deer"!!! The two youngest hunters are all venting with their friend that this is THEIR deer.
Rick does some questions and answers with with them. The shooter has told his buddies that he did a broad side shot and hit the doe right behind the front leg. Rick told the guy he was wrong that the shot broke the front leg and grazed the upper chest front front to rear indicating he shot her head on.
As this is going on one of the guys says where is your rifle and Rick replies, "Oh I used my S&W 357 which is right here." For some reason this got the three younger guys all quiet. 
The older guy, about Rick's age, finally said to Rick, "I guess it's your deer if you did all this and used your tag". But Rick interjected and said, "No, if you want the deer I'll give it to you if you pay me for my new tag and I'll write you a release to keep the deer in you possession".
This situation usually does not happen in the UP but every now and then high weirdness happens. Mostly this area is hunted my families that  have know one another for the past 150 years.

Now I don't know if this is totally ethical on Rick's part in regards to asking for payment of his tag, but I believe he did the correct thing. Besides this was in the good years of high deer numbers and he'd already taken one with his bow and another with a rifle(very large extended family that has always eaten off the land). You were allowed to harvest 4 deer in those days and in some areas a camp deer was allowed.

[Moosehunt]

I had a situation last year on the Snake River breaks.  I had been hunting the morning and got deep into the canyons.  It seemed like every ridge had hunters orange on it.  I was in a great position to not only see more deer but to harvest one as well.  About 9am, I glass a bit of movement coming out a brushy draw halfway up a canyon....maybe 250-300 yards away.  4-5 Muley does and a nice 22" 4 point following behind.  Got set, on rest, and let loose with a shot from my .30-06.  Hit the Muley in the shoulder, just a bit forward of the boiler, but I figure an eventual kill shot none-the-less.  Buck starts moving across the face of the canyon and enters another, all-the-while hobbling like it may crash at any moment.  I did fire a few more shots, but did not finish him right where he was at.  Couldn't keep shooting because of all the orange.  Buck enter the other canyon, maybe 30yds in front of another hunter and I heard the crack of another rifle.  Dead buck.  I am now 500 yards from the buck and at the bottom of the canyon.  I watched the other hunter and partner gut, quarter and pack out what should have been my buck. 

After the buck went down, I just sat down and watched the other hunters.  My brother had been in a similar situation with a good buck a few years earlier and backed down to a  weekend warrior because it could have gotten dangerous.  I figured I would just do the same thing.  Didn't want to...I wanted to bust hump to the deer and claim my prize, but figured I would let it be as I didn't want a situation to go bad.  I just knew myself well enough to know I would not have backed down and didn't need the trouble.  Ended up with an un-notched tag for the year.

My brothers and I have a rule when hunting together.  First to shoot and hit gets.  Any shot after is just helping out....as long as it's between us.  Can't say the same for anyone else though. 

[Palmer]

Six years ago near Newport My Dad shot a whitetail, 4 point.  I came over to see within 10 minutes.  My Dad tells me he went down 50 feet away.  We go over there and find out he had gotten up again.  Within minutes we hear a shot 200 yards away toward the road.  We hear a tailgate drop, a couple voices and scurying, and then a vehicle peel out a bit as it takes off.  It took us an hour though to put two and two together.  We followed the trail toward the road and after two or three hours decided that the vehicle we heard must have taken out the deer.  What can you do except take a better shot the next time.

[Cougeyes]

How can you get a replacement tag once the season started?  I thought that wasn't possible because if that were the case we could all be out there shooting our animals, notching our tags and then saying we lost our tag and shoot another one?  Not that I would, but I'm just curious, always wondered about the replacement tag issue once the season started?