Washington Mule deer hunting by permit only...???

[Rainier10]

So...it seems like every day I read on here how someone is going to quit hunting in Washington. I read about people who live in Washington "pledging" to recommit to hunting here, where they live. It makes no sense to me that you wouldn't hunt where you live. Anyway, my point is what needs to be done to get those people back and happy about hunting here in Washington. So, what's it going to take??

I think that is the million dollar question.

The WDFW knows they have a problem with retaining and recruiting hunters.  The average hunter age just keeps getting older and older.  They are trying all kinds of stuff from one year hunter education deferral licenses, making hunter education more available, more permits for youth hunters, they are even trying mentoring projects to get more youth involved.  Some teaching teams are trying to recruit more female hunters by offering female only hunter education classes taught by females.

I think getting more females involved is really important and here is why.  Studies show that women vote more than men.  If you can get them involved and knowledgeable about the sport of hunting and why we use the methods of management we do they will talk to their friends about it and hopefully not vote against hunting issues.

Just my 

[kentrek]

Anyway, my point is what needs to be done to get those people back and happy about hunting here in Washington. So, what's it going to take??

You won't...the public has shifted away from things that take work....it has nothing to do with the hunting opportunity out there its just our attention spans have been programed for immediate pleasures and hunting is far from immediate...it's a long term reward in a short term society...

Being positive is about the only thing you can do, it's just as contagious as being negative..

[jkthomps]

Hasn't deer hunting participation dropped 27% in this state since 2007.

Year     Hunters     Harvest

2007    139,241   32,999
2008    144,514   35,118   
2009    136,859   33,778
2010    131,133   33,391
2011    125,537   29,154
2012    120,082   33,917
2013    123,928   33,657
2014    120,488   35,216

Looks like since 2008 hunter #'s have decreased by 17% and harvest #'s have remained the same.

Interesting numbers, thanks for posting.

I wonder what the biggest factor was between 2008 and 2014, just those two years specifically. You have nearly the same amount of deer harvested, but 24K less people buying tags. My guess is $$$ was the biggest factor i.e. gas prices, tag/license prices, ammo costs, etcetera...

As far as permit only for mule deer, I would be interested in seeing how many people actually focus solely on mule deer, how many of those people actually successfully get a mule deer, and then how many proposed permits for just mule deer there would be.

Is there any way to find out how many mule deer were harvest out of the 35,216 deer harvested in 2008 and 2014?

[jackelope]

Anyway, my point is what needs to be done to get those people back and happy about hunting here in Washington. So, what's it going to take??

You won't...the public has shifted away from things that take work....it has nothing to do with the hunting opportunity out there its just our attention spans have been programed for immediate pleasures and hunting is far from immediate...it's a long term reward in a short term society...

Being positive is about the only thing you can do, it's just as contagious as being negative..

That's all I'm trying to do...be positive and bring up some ideas for positive changes. Doesn't seem like many here are interested which, judging by those WDFW numbers, is no surprise. Most seem to want to complain about everything wdfw and do nothing to change it. Seems about par for the course. 

[Karl Blanchard]

First off, to claim that anyone who wants to see better herd management is only in it for bigger bucks is BS.  At what point do we address the continual decrease in mule deer populations across the west?  When there aren't enough to hunt?  I want my children to hunt.  I want there children to hunt too.  I love all things deer.  I want to see them in healthy numbers far more than I want to kill a trophy of a lifetime.

I'm not saying that we need to go to a draw only sytem just yet, as I would not support that until we have addressed the predator issue that we have.  Bring back baiting.  Bring back dogs.  Kill more coyotes.  THEN, and only then, if mule deer numbers still won't rebound, would I fully support a permit system.

Oh and make all the west siders pay NR prices to hunt the east side

[Bob33]

Oh and make all the west siders pay NR prices to hunt the east side

No need to. President Sanders will be giving us free licenses, along with our free college tuition. Yea!

[Karl Blanchard]

Oh and make all the west siders pay NR prices to hunt the east side

No need to. President Sanders will be giving us free licenses, along with our free college tuition. Yea!

  Oh I'm gonna get my money's worth out of that!  Not the college thingy but the free licenses.  Think I will get a fuel card to go with it

[bearpaw]

As much as I would like to see more quality areas it's probably not going to happen. Here's why I say that!

 - It appears that WDFW wants to manage for quantity license sales, not quality deer
 - WDFW fought tooth and nail to eliminate the 4pt rule in two NE GMU's
 - The majority of Washington hunters want opportunity rather than quality
 - I learned something I hadn't thought about in a recent conversation with an Idaho Commissioner

Utah has gone to a large number of draw hunts. This has reduced the number of hunters in Utah and the net result is greatly reduced federal Pittman/Robertson funds which are based off of hunters in a state. Apparently this could be one of the reasons Utah has so many auction tags, they need it to fund their F&G. At least in Idaho I don't expect to see many moves that will reduce hunter numbers and that could be a major reason why WDFW is trying to maintain hunter numbers?

[Karl Blanchard]

I think just like the term "trophy hunting" is not used properly, the term "quality" is also mis-used.  Quality is not purely based on trophy potential.  Quality is adequate numbers of deer for the holding capacity of the land.  Quality is healthy buck to doe ratios.  Quality is reasonable number of hunters in relation to the specific herd for that gmu.  All of this equals a quality hunt and in return, a product of this is also a more mature age class of buck.  With better populations you will see higher success rates which usually equates to a positive experience.  A positive experience usually results in an attempt to duplicate said experience.  That means repeat license sales.  Just sayin......

[Bob33]

Utah has gone to a large number of draw hunts. This has reduced the number of hunters in Utah and the net result is greatly reduced federal Pittman/Robertson funds which are based off of hunters in a state. Apparently this could be one of the reasons Utah has so many auction tags, they need it to fund their F&G. At least in Idaho I don't expect to see many moves that will reduce hunter numbers and that could be a major reason why WDFW is trying to maintain hunter numbers?

That's a valid concern. State agencies get significant funding from Pittman-Robertson. (Thanks to Obama, funds are at record levels.)

Washington is 22nd on the list of funds received by state.

See page WR-10 for 2013 data:
http://www.fws.gov/budget/2013/PDF%20Files%20FY%202013%20Greenbook/24.%20Wildlife%20Restoration.pdf

[kentrek]

Anyway, my point is what needs to be done to get those people back and happy about hunting here in Washington. So, what's it going to take??

You won't...the public has shifted away from things that take work....it has nothing to do with the hunting opportunity out there its just our attention spans have been programed for immediate pleasures and hunting is far from immediate...it's a long term reward in a short term society...

Being positive is about the only thing you can do, it's just as contagious as being negative..

That's all I'm trying to do...be positive and bring up some ideas for positive changes. Doesn't seem like many here are interested which, judging by those WDFW numbers, is no surprise. Most seem to want to complain about everything wdfw and do nothing to change it. Seems about par for the course.

  at least your trying  one problem you have is getting people to agree on what the main issue is for making hunting more enjoyable

Is it less hunters ?
Bigger bucks ?
More bucks ?
More deer in general? 

Beings that all our ideas for a successful hunt cover a huge and vast spectrum, how on earth could we manage anything in a way to make folks happy ??

Personally I would prefer to manage similar to idaho elk...have zones with predetermined quotas that are ideal to maintain a healthy  (what ever that is) herd...first come first serve we have "x" animals that need to be taken so we sell "x" tags......have a general seasons and keep the draws for units that are really hurting

But that's in a world where we could all agree on what a "healthy" deer herd is

[erk444]

I think the multi season tag has had a big effect on deer harvest #s more than anything else. I love hunting east and west every year, but I could learn to pick one if it would help the overall health of the heard. That being said, I would much rather give up the multi season tag.

[RadSav]

Oops, I must have pulled the "Tags Purchased" number from 2007.  I apologies.  Still shows a decrees in participation.  Increasing that rate of decline is dangerous, IMO.

For sure it is still a significant decrease in hunters with just as many animals being taken. The decrease in hunters even if 17% rather than 27% is still very alarming. The amount of animals taken is easily adjusted by number of permits given out and length and timing of general seasons.

In my view of the numbers it shows that the old saying, "10% of the hunters tag 90% of the animals" holds true.  Successful veteran hunters will continue to hunt and remain successful even with limited opportunities.  The hunters we lose when we reduce opportunity are not those who succeed.  The sport needs to attract more young hunters.  We need those unsuccessful hunters who simply enjoy being outdoors with a chance.  They may become successful hunters if they stay involved in the sport and they may not.  They certainly will not if they give up hunting altogether.

... Anyway, my point is what needs to be done to get those people back and happy about hunting here in Washington. So, what's it going to take??

The hunters who will remain when/if there is a draw will be those dedicated successful hunters.  The ones we lose will be those who care less about trophy potential and more about just being out and participating.  If you want to get more people involved and create a happy hunting environment increase opportunity rather than limit it.  Make participation easy rather than difficult.  Let new and unsuccessful hunters feel wanted as stewards and voters rather than feeling unwanted by the new breed of elitists and trophy hunters created by record books and TV shows.

Look at the increased participation in the archery shooting sports the past few years.  For so long we shamed archers because they did not fit the herculean image of tough guys and master hunters.  TV shows and modern movies appealed to the more traditional, have fun, enjoy archery lifestyle.  NASP programs were designed so all kids could compete.  The Mathews/NASP bows were designed so nearly any child, gender and strength level could shoot, participate and enjoy shooting the bow.  NASP is very deliberate in appealing to the weak, the strong, the gifted and the not so gifted.  They promote participation above trophies and gargantuan displayed of superiority.  It has worked!  Archery is one of the fastest growing women's sports in the country now overtaking fly fishing.  Archery shops that once had a half dozen range lanes are searching for new locations to double and even triple the amount of lanes.

Look at bowhunting numbers over the past 15 years.  We bowhunters like to think of ourselves as the cream of the crop, most elite sportsmen and the almighty gifts from a socialist god.  In truth, most hunters who chose to hunt with the bow do so because they have a longer season and can shoot does without a draw system.  Those that disagree have a hard time explaining how Oregon was forced to reinstitute archery doe seasons after changing the rules to buck only.  Deer tag sales dropped nearly 50% and rifle tags increased nearly 25%.  It was such an alarming change of user groups and drop in state revenue the state changed things back before the first season started.  Bowhunting's popularity in either/or hunting states is all about opportunity and almost nothing about trophy potential.  Trophy potential is our way of rationalizing our new elitist behavior - not about increasing enjoyment or participation.

It's about increasing the ease of participation and appreciating all groups rather than grand standing on divisive elitist principles.

[jackelope]

Well. I sure hope some people read and listen to what you're saying, Brian.
That's good stuff. More folks need to do whatever they can to get kids involved. Doesn't have to be their own kids either.
My wife shoots a bow and fly fishes lol. My now 8 year old daughter has been shooting her bow for 2 years now. I've had hints thrown at me to start an archery project  in our 4h club. Maybe I should get on that. I'm hesitant because I'm not the most experienced archer in the world. Not sure how I'd do as a teacher.

[bearpaw]

Well. I sure hope some people read and listen to what you're saying, Brian.
That's good stuff. More folks need to do whatever they can to get kids involved. Doesn't have to be their own kids either.
My wife shoots a bow and fly fishes lol. My now 8 year old daughter has been shooting her bow for 2 years now. I've had hints thrown at me to start an archery project  in our 4h club. Maybe I should get on that. I'm hesitant because I'm not the most experienced archer in the world. Not sure how I'd do as a teacher.