Washington Mule deer hunting by permit only...???

[MtnMuley]

The rut is over by the time late archery season starts. I think it's snow that helps with that hunt more than anything (and big piles of apples I've heard)

The rut is definitely not over by time late archery starts.

Washington state needs to change late archery season to not interfere with mulie rut. The state also needs to allow more 'any whitetail' permits. It is absolutely saddening to watch bow hunters hunting mulies when the deer are trying to mate and are dumb as hell cuz the bucks have one thing on their mind (does). Not really hunting at that time of year.

But the rifle permits are ok

Vast majority of breeding is done by the Nov 25th opener of late archery.  Ya you have some doe's coming into a second estrus but most of your breeding is done.

Rifle permits are draw only and they limit the amount of hunters, from 10-25 normally.  Late archery is a general season with thousands of hunters.

I'm not condoning the comment on changing the late archery season dates either, however, there needs to be some modifications in areas.

[Karl Blanchard]

Oh I agree.  I took their comment as having an issue with hunting the rut, hence the reason I pointed out the rifle tags. 

[ghosthunter]

Be careful what you wish for! I know for me I didnt invest 20k dollars to MAYBE draw a tag and go hunting!!!

I invested to go every year!


Here is a problem that never gets addressed!  Since when do you have to go out and shoot a 200" inch muley?  You dont but everyone seems to want to change rules just so they can go shoot bigger and bigger and bigger deer!   Its getting to the point where I just dont care to hear a score anymore!  If we keep going the way were headed, hunting will only be a rich mans game. 

What a disgrace.  No way will I ever agree to a draw only hunting.

I personally don't have to kill a 200" mule deer. Ever. I'd love to, but it's not something I look for specifically in a quality experience. I'm looking for the place, the scenery, the adventure, the time with friends and the hope to harvest a mature buck. All the while I don't want to be surrounded by a sea of orange.
I don't have $20k invested, never will and i don't personally think anyone needs to spend that much money on hunting.

Remind me to buy you a beer the next time our paths cross Josh.

Well said.

[MtnMuley]

No matter what happens, we as hunters will always have different opinions on how DFW should manage the game, seasons, and dates.  In the end, I truly hope they manage it with the herd health being put forth first, even if it affects some of my/our seasons.  The ball is definitely in DFW's hands now with several concerning issues on hand.  Just hoping sound management is chosen over monetary reasons.

[Karl Blanchard]

 

No matter what happens, we as hunters will always have different opinions on how DFW should manage the game, seasons, and dates.  In the end, I truly hope they manage it with the herd health being put forth first, even if it affects some of my/our seasons.  The ball is definitely in DFW's hands now with several concerning issues on hand.  Just hoping sound management is chosen over monetary reasons.

    

[ghosthunter]

Oops, I must have pulled the "Tags Purchased" number from 2007.  I apologies.  Still shows a decrees in participation.  Increasing that rate of decline is dangerous, IMO.

For sure it is still a significant decrease in hunters with just as many animals being taken. The decrease in hunters even if 17% rather than 27% is still very alarming. The amount of animals taken is easily adjusted by number of permits given out and length and timing of general seasons.

Retaining existing hunters and recruiting new ones to fill in for hunters that have lost interest is what they should be concerned about.  Especially if it is all about the benjamins.  Not just for the state either, think of all the revenue lost by companies that supply hunting equipment. (not sure if you have thought about that Rad, less hunters less people buying your stuff.  ) I am sure you have thought of it and that is one of the reasons it is so important to you to not limit opportunity especially if there is no backing to say that herd health is in jeopardy.

One of the number one complaints hunters have is lack of land to hunt.  As more and more land becomes privatized or that was FFTH and is now closed the more crowded it is going to get on the areas that are still open to free access.

I am not sure lack of interest in hunters in the problem. I think you are seeing the Baby Boomers falling off due to age and less hunter recruitment.
Because hunting takes time. Many younger folks 30-40 having trouble making time for a hunting trip.
My son, 28 , Loves hunting camp but has not been in camp more than a couple days in two years . Just too busy making a living and raising a family.

[ghosthunter]

One side note , No hijack intended. My Hunter Ed class finishing today is 50% female. I think that is encouraging.

[Rainier10]

The rut is over by the time late archery season starts. I think it's snow that helps with that hunt more than anything (and big piles of apples I've heard)

The rut is definitely not over by time late archery starts.

Washington state needs to change late archery season to not interfere with mulie rut. The state also needs to allow more 'any whitetail' permits. It is absolutely saddening to watch bow hunters hunting mulies when the deer are trying to mate and are dumb as hell cuz the bucks have one thing on their mind (does). Not really hunting at that time of year.

But the rifle permits are ok

Vast majority of breeding is done by the Nov 25th opener of late archery.  Ya you have some doe's coming into a second estrus but most of your breeding is done.

Rifle permits are draw only and they limit the amount of hunters, from 10-25 normally.  Late archery is a general season with thousands of hunters.

I'm not condoning the comment on changing the late archery season dates either, however, there needs to be some modifications in areas.

I assume you are saying thousands hunt the late archery season statewide and not in one GMU correct?  If you are talking about a particular GMU I would like to know which one that is.

I hunt Swakane, one that most say is overcrowded and the hunter numbers I have seen from the game department haven't been over 900 in the years that I have been following them and once they eliminated the general doe season the hunter numbers dropped back down to the 600's.

I think 2008 was the high total of 889 hunters and the following year when it went back to 3pt buck only they went back to 630 archery hunters.  Those numbers of hunters aren't broken out between early and late season, I assume they are mostly late season but I am sure there are some early season archers in there.

[Odell]

I would be more in favor of an East/West split on deer like there is for elk.

[MtnMuley]

Rainier10, I'm talking all the units open for general late archery. Also, no way would I believe the numbers of hunters per gmu, per season are accurate. I know the reports are their only tool for numbers, but the huge majority of the people I know get through those surveys as fast as they can. Many also think that fudging on GMU's will benefit them in some way, like hiding their units. I laugh.

[Rainier10]

Rainier10, I'm talking all the units open for general late archery. Also, no way would I believe the numbers of hunters per gmu, per season are accurate. I know the reports are there only tool for numbers, but the huge majority of the people I know get through those surveys as fast as they can. Many also think that fudging on GMU's will benefit them in some way, like hiding their units. I laugh.

I hear ya, I wish people would report accurately.  I wonder if those that don't report accurately are the same ones complaining that the WDFW doesn't manage game correctly.  I am not saying WDFW is perfect but if one of the main tools they have to use is not accurate how can we expect them to do a good job?

Sorry to get this sidetracked I just was wondering if there was a GMU out there that was getting pounded that bad.

I would like to see more units open in the late season, I don't think it would increase the number of hunters but I think it would spread them out more.

I don't know what all the answers are but certainly like threads like this that bring so many ideas and opinions out to consider.

[MtnMuley]

Personally, I'd be all for having alternating units open on a rotating basis, instead of pounding the same units over and over. It makes perfect sense to me, but after years of trying to convince DFW of that, I gave up.

[Rainier10]

I would be for anything that improves herd health if that is what is needed.

The problem I have with permit only or alternating units that are open is we have been hunting the same unit as a family for 20plus years.

Hunting is a tradition for many and I think if you break that tradition you lose interest, if you lose interest you lose hunters.

Right now loss of hunters and recruitment of new hunters is a real issue and I would hate to do anything that sped that up.

[MtnMuley]

Chiliwist was a fav of many for years for late general  archery. It was shut down to permit only. Hunters adjusted. Entiat was open for late general archery for years. It was shut down to permit only. Hunters adjusted. Mule deer went from any buck to 3pt or better. Hunters adjusted. Not to sound like a jerk, but those were changed with the assumption for a better herd health. I see no reason why alternating units shouldn't be done. I feel that in this day and age
, a guy has to adjust and not rely on traditions as much as we once could. Even if that made breaking up a hunting camp which has happened to me.

[Hot Lunch]

You cannot eat the horns. If you want to get away from people knock on doors, hike to the back country or hunt mid week. Hunting is as much about tradition as anything and I would hate to opportunities taken away. Washington has lots of public land and plenty of room. Deer herds are in good shape, why are we having this discussion.