Barnes bullets supporting lead ammunition bans!

[JDHasty]

OK, this is how it went down:

I am at work one morning and Rodger Boyd and one of the reps show up at the retail counter w/this Barnes Bullet mob out of Colorado.  They are glad handing and back slapping and handing out sample bullet packs, caps, t-shirts, jackets, and other swag.  I used to kinda like it when the reps and factory people paid as much attention to attention to the guys who worked for me as they did to me and so I would say that they made a good first impression.  IIRC the story was: they were supposedly headed to B.C. or AK and decided to spend some time around the Puget Sound area.  This was like on a Tuesday or Wednesday and (again IIRC) there was a WDFW public meeting that Thursday at 10:00 or noon that I  had been planning to attend. 

The meeting was in Thurston County, it was held in a convention/meeting facility at a motel.  Non-toxic shot was being expanded for waterfowl hunting to include areas in the more mountain areas and there was a push to make the entire State non-toxic (even for target trap/skeet ranges).   We were always big in the clay target shooting component business and Don Burroughs, and I met Ron Tree and a couple of other guys for breakfast and attended the meeting.  This was a very well attended meeting, Chuck Dryke was there,  Warshalls people there, Kesselrings folks were there, people who are in to field trial were there and dog trainers were all there. 

Make absolutely no mistake about it, Barnes Bullets people were working hand in glove with the "enviro" element that was pushing this agenda and they were making the case that not just lead shot should be banned, that all lead should be banned from all sporting ammunition period. 

[Jonathan_S]

Not much online about this... of course there wouldn't be but it'd be nice if there were more similar stories to access.

Makes me want to hunt with cast bullets 

[high country]

Let's put some thought into how to share this, it would be very easy to look like a bunch of environment hating gun toters, but it needs to get out and be shared by the customers.

[grundy53]

Wow. I'm glad I'm not a customer.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[Bob33]

I don't believe it.

It's an old, unsubstantiated rumor.

[theleo]

Not much online about this... of course there wouldn't be but it'd be nice if there were more similar stories to access.

Makes me want to hunt with cast bullets 

There's quite a bit on Ifish about this, since most the guys on that forum are from the Portland area some went to the Oregon Zoo workshops. My Google fu is week today as I can't remember exactly which thread it was pertaining to talking with Barnes Reps at one of the workshops. The theme of the meetings were, look at how this lead bullet comes apart and fragments spraying lead every where in the animal compared to this wonderful copper bullet. I have nothing against mono bullets in certain applications but they are not the and all be all bullet design. I'm just not a Barnes fan these days as they have become the poster child for the movement and seem willing enough to go along with it since it fits their corporations revenue agenda. 

[JDHasty]

Let's put some thought into how to share this, it would be very easy to look like a bunch of environment hating gun toters, but it needs to get out and be shared by the customers.

I have never been one to not speak up when I am upset about something and this has been something that has stuck with me for going on three decades now.  I did talk to others at the SHOT Show who experienced this in their state and there were more than a couple who were as bent as I was about not only the agenda, but also the tactics.   

It has been said that I am known as a person who:  Either people like him or they do not like him.  If they like him, they like him a lot and if they don't like him they really cannot stand him.  There doesn't seem to be much in between. 

I had a lot of friends in the industry, from coast to coast, who I would get together with at SHOT Shows or would chat on the phone with and this was a pretty hot topic of conversation for us.

When the topic comes up people are interested in it, but like you they are concerned about how to spread the word w/out coming off as some kind of anti-environment or someone who has an axe to grind w/Barnes.  Nothing could be further from the truth, I liked Barnes 250 gr 348 bullets really well and would have been quite happy to continue using them.  But after this went down I could not in good conscience purchase anything more from the company.  As for the swag they gave to my counter help, to the best of my knowledge it all ended up in the dumpster along with all of the Barnes counter mats, free X-bullets, catalogs and order forms.       

[JDHasty]

I don't believe it.

It's an old, unsubstantiated rumor.

It is what it is and went down exactly as I have said re: the important facts.  As for details, that was ~30 years ago. 

[jackelope]

I don't believe it.

It's an old, unsubstantiated rumor.

It is what it is and went down exactly as I have said re: the important facts.  As for details, that was ~30 years ago.

This was happening 25-30 years ago. Is there evidence this is still going on today? It doesn't make any sense to get all balled up about something that happened 25 years ago. If it is still happening today, I know what bullets I will not be loading or buying.

[bearpaw]

Not much online about this... of course there wouldn't be but it'd be nice if there were more similar stories to access.

Makes me want to hunt with cast bullets 

There's quite a bit on Ifish about this, since most the guys on that forum are from the Portland area some went to the Oregon Zoo workshops. My Google fu is week today as I can't remember exactly which thread it was pertaining to talking with Barnes Reps at one of the workshops. The theme of the meetings were, look at how this lead bullet comes apart and fragments spraying lead every where in the animal compared to this wonderful copper bullet. I have nothing against mono bullets in certain applications but they are not the and all be all bullet design. I'm just not a Barnes fan these days as they have become the poster child for the movement and seem willing enough to go along with it since it fits their corporations revenue agenda.

We shoot a lot of different bullets, but in the right applications we've had great success with Barnes bullets so I am glad to support them. I would like to confirm that Barnes is actively doing this. It's one thing to watch ammo bans happen and not be opposed if it benefits your sales, it's a much different thing to purposefully advocate for the elimination of all lead ammo to benefit your bottom line when the cost factor will actually damage the overall shooting industry. I certainly want to hear more and agree with jackelope in wanting to know if they are still advocating for lead ammo bans!

[Bob33]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/jan/14/california-lead-ban-copper-/

[Fl0und3rz]

Good to know.  Thanks.

This should probably be stickied in the Gun Rights and Advocacy section. 

[jackelope]

New-look rounds might even be an upgrade. Last year, copper VOR-TX bullets won the American Hunter Ammunition Product of the Year Golden Bullseye Award from the NRA Publications. Despite that honor, the winning manufacturer, Barnes Bullets, opposes banning lead. The company acknowledges that after 30 years of making copper bullets, starting well before longstanding concerns about lead had translated into policy, they've found that copper bullets "deliver the best terminal performance on game” (although it's hard on the manufacturing tools). And yet, "Barnes has not funded or supported efforts to further the advancement of any lead ban, nor will we ever."

http://www.psmag.com/nature-and-technology/duel-lead-green-bullets-68369

I suppose it could be looked at this way too:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/9/26/leading-the-way-barnes-bullets/

.........Any anti-hunting faction that believes that making lead projectiles illegal will stop hunting is mistaken, thanks in large part to Randy Brooks and his vision of a copper bullet that can do anything a lead bullet can do. .........

I'm not sticking up for anybody here...just looking at both ends of the spectrum.

[JDHasty]

I cannot say anything about what they are doing today.  What went down when they were first pushing the X-bullet is fact. 

[bobcat]

I'm a fan of Barnes bullets and will always use them for certain applications. However I'm not against using the Nosler e tip or any of the other copper bullets, but I've just never tried anything but Barnes.