Washington wolf population continues to grow

[winshooter88]

Someone said that we need to get to the required numbers so we can hunt wolves to help control them, with the current governor and liberal west side populous there is almost no chance that hunting wolves will ever be allowed. The current wolf plan has no guarantees that hunting will be allowed after population objectives are met, it only says that it may be an option.

[pianoman9701]

If the mods won't say it, I will. Stop the name calling and personal insults. It indicates desperation. If you can't have a civil discussion on a topic, then take a break and come back when you can. This is a good site with good people. We are all neighbors. Act like it

[bearpaw]

It would never happen with our current governor, but I would personally support a position similar to what Idaho's Governor Otter took, preventing Idaho wardens from providing info to the USFWS to prosecute individuals for killing wolves. I would also fully support any sheriff or county commissioner candidate who promised to try and open his county up to responsible predator management!

So your position is that, law enforcement should ignore or abet illegal activity?

State of WA seems out of touch with hunters, ranchers, and rural residents. My personal position, I would strongly support any county that creates their own hunting regulations! Local control by local government! Exactly as I strongly supported Governor Otter. 

Yea - lets have each county set their own hunting regulations, sell their own licenses, run their own good-ol-boy clubs...that would be a disaster far more damaging to hunter opportunity in this state than any level of predators that will ever exist here.

Typical response I bet you love big government also

   It's obvious what the status quo WDFW has gotten us!

I agree that status quo WDFW hasn't gotten us the best possible result, but, Bearpaw, would you actually support county by county control??

Why not township by township?

Why not private land owner by private land owner?

I know our county commissioners and Sheriff, they are good people. The county commissioners have a county wildlife advisory board of which I am a member, I've sat in our meetings, I've seen the wisdom of our members. I know this advisory board would create much better management and hunting opportunities in Stevens County. The members of our advisory board have a vested interest in the outcome, it seems WDFW's interest is mostly monetary and pleasing the I-5 masses.

It's very much like education, do you think Washington DC makes better education policies for your local school or do you trust your local government and school board to make better decisions?

[idahohuntr]

It's such a bad idea it can't be taken seriously.  Even if one county might have some good idea the whole thing is just a train wreck.  Fortunately, it will never happen.  States own the wildlife.

[Henrydog]

I don't wear a tin hat but many of you will think so.  Both the feds and WDFW view hunters as a thorn.   They hate hunters, fisherman, the cattlemen miners, loggers and anyone who does not live in a condo or own a Prius.  They know they can not ban hunting that would cause an outcry.  So instead they milk us for money and make rules and regulations that make hunting or fishing so difficult in hopes you just give up.  Wolfs are just part of that agenda.  If herds are destroyed then what they view as the uncivilized masses will just give up hunting. Much like hatchery steelhead that are being released with all fins attached so you cannot retain one.  Its all by design and part of their urban green agenda. 

[jackelope]

It would never happen with our current governor, but I would personally support a position similar to what Idaho's Governor Otter took, preventing Idaho wardens from providing info to the USFWS to prosecute individuals for killing wolves. I would also fully support any sheriff or county commissioner candidate who promised to try and open his county up to responsible predator management!

So your position is that, law enforcement should ignore or abet illegal activity?

State of WA seems out of touch with hunters, ranchers, and rural residents. My personal position, I would strongly support any county that creates their own hunting regulations! Local control by local government! Exactly as I strongly supported Governor Otter. 

Yea - lets have each county set their own hunting regulations, sell their own licenses, run their own good-ol-boy clubs...that would be a disaster far more damaging to hunter opportunity in this state than any level of predators that will ever exist here.

Typical response I bet you love big government also

   It's obvious what the status quo WDFW has gotten us!

I agree that status quo WDFW hasn't gotten us the best possible result, but, Bearpaw, would you actually support county by county control??

Why not township by township?

Why not private land owner by private land owner?

I know our county commissioners and Sheriff, they are good people. The county commissioners have a county wildlife advisory board of which I am a member, I've sat in our meetings, I've seen the wisdom of our members. I know this advisory board would create much better management and hunting opportunities in Stevens County. The members of our advisory board have a vested interest in the outcome, it seems WDFW's interest is mostly monetary and pleasing the I-5 masses.

It's very much like education, do you think Washington DC makes better education policies for your local school or do you trust your local government and school board to make better decisions?

So your county would do a good job with it. Whose to say that all the other 38 counties in Washington would do a good job?

[jackelope]

I would like to see the remaining breeding pairs in King county. Just think of the great tourism it would create, you could ride the ducks then go see the wolves after spotting them from the space Needle! 

This was recorded in King County ~5 months ago. Turn the volume all the way up.


Not a valid vimeo URL

[bearpaw]

Next year, the year after, the year after that, and so forth, we should expect the wolf population to grow by roughly 30% each year.

According to our wolf plan, delisting cannot occur until WDFW has proven there are 15 breeding pairs with pups till the end of the year for three consecutive years, spread across all three wolf recovery zones, or 18 breeding pairs for at least three years. Then if WDFW does delist don't expect any meaningful management to reduce wolf populations for at least three years because WDFW will be afraid to manage. I doubt we see any attempt to delist for at least 6 to 10 years, and I doubt there will be any meaningful management for at lesat 9 to 13 years. WDFW simply is not efficient enough to expect results any sooner.

These minimum counts show at least 30% increase each year!
(there are probably many many more wolves than they have confirmed)

KNOWN WA COUNTS (showing at least 30% population increase annually)
2013......52 wolves, 13 packs, 5 breeding pairs
2014......68 wolves, 16 packs, 5 breeding pairs
2015......90 wolves, 18 packs, 8 breeding pairs

PROJECTED WA WOLF COUNTS (30% annual population increase)
2016......117 wolves, 23 packs, 10 breeding pairs
2017......152 wolves, 30 packs, 14 breeding pairs
2018......198 wolves, 40 packs, 18 breeding pairs
2019......257 wolves, 51 packs, 23 breeding pairs
2020......334 wolves, 66 packs, 30 breeding pairs
2021......434 wolves, 87 packs, 39 breeding pairs
2022......565 wolves, 113 packs, 50 breeding pairs
2023......734 wolves, 147 packs, 65 breeding pairs
2024......954 wolves, 191 packs, 85 breeding pairs
2025......1240 wolves, 248 packs, 110 breeding pairs

Graphs show historic wolf population growth in numerous states and in Yellowstone (YNP is only a small portion of Wyoming)

[bearpaw]

There is a breaking point at which non-hunted wolf numbers will decline, when their food source crashes!

[bearpaw]

Wolves like NE Washington, that is evident by their population growth in this part of Washington. I can't see how the continued increase in wolf populations and eventual decline in prey populations will be any different than what has happened in Yellowstone, Lolo, or any other place wolf populations exploded and wolves were not hunted.

[bearpaw]

It would never happen with our current governor, but I would personally support a position similar to what Idaho's Governor Otter took, preventing Idaho wardens from providing info to the USFWS to prosecute individuals for killing wolves. I would also fully support any sheriff or county commissioner candidate who promised to try and open his county up to responsible predator management!

So your position is that, law enforcement should ignore or abet illegal activity?

State of WA seems out of touch with hunters, ranchers, and rural residents. My personal position, I would strongly support any county that creates their own hunting regulations! Local control by local government! Exactly as I strongly supported Governor Otter. 

Yea - lets have each county set their own hunting regulations, sell their own licenses, run their own good-ol-boy clubs...that would be a disaster far more damaging to hunter opportunity in this state than any level of predators that will ever exist here.

Typical response I bet you love big government also

   It's obvious what the status quo WDFW has gotten us!

I agree that status quo WDFW hasn't gotten us the best possible result, but, Bearpaw, would you actually support county by county control??

Why not township by township?

Why not private land owner by private land owner?

I know our county commissioners and Sheriff, they are good people. The county commissioners have a county wildlife advisory board of which I am a member, I've sat in our meetings, I've seen the wisdom of our members. I know this advisory board would create much better management and hunting opportunities in Stevens County. The members of our advisory board have a vested interest in the outcome, it seems WDFW's interest is mostly monetary and pleasing the I-5 masses.

It's very much like education, do you think Washington DC makes better education policies for your local school or do you trust your local government and school board to make better decisions?

So your county would do a good job with it. Whose to say that all the other 38 counties in Washington would do a good job?

I don't know and I'm not concerned about all the other counties. Your county is your business, if you prefer to keep WDFW that is your business, I am advocating for my county. I would absolutely support Stevens County to opt out of state management!

If that happened in my county you would likely see deer more carefully managed, predators managed, trapping and hound hunting like there used to be!

[wolfbait]

It would never happen with our current governor, but I would personally support a position similar to what Idaho's Governor Otter took, preventing Idaho wardens from providing info to the USFWS to prosecute individuals for killing wolves. I would also fully support any sheriff or county commissioner candidate who promised to try and open his county up to responsible predator management!

So your position is that, law enforcement should ignore or abet illegal activity?

State of WA seems out of touch with hunters, ranchers, and rural residents. My personal position, I would strongly support any county that creates their own hunting regulations! Local control by local government! Exactly as I strongly supported Governor Otter. 

Yea - lets have each county set their own hunting regulations, sell their own licenses, run their own good-ol-boy clubs...that would be a disaster far more damaging to hunter opportunity in this state than any level of predators that will ever exist here.

Typical response I bet you love big government also

   It's obvious what the status quo WDFW has gotten us!

I agree that status quo WDFW hasn't gotten us the best possible result, but, Bearpaw, would you actually support county by county control??

Why not township by township?

Why not private land owner by private land owner?

I know our county commissioners and Sheriff, they are good people. The county commissioners have a county wildlife advisory board of which I am a member, I've sat in our meetings, I've seen the wisdom of our members. I know this advisory board would create much better management and hunting opportunities in Stevens County. The members of our advisory board have a vested interest in the outcome, it seems WDFW's interest is mostly monetary and pleasing the I-5 masses.

It's very much like education, do you think Washington DC makes better education policies for your local school or do you trust your local government and school board to make better decisions?

So your county would do a good job with it. Whose to say that all the other 38 counties in Washington would do a good job?

I don't know and I'm not concerned about all the other counties. Your county is your business, if you prefer to keep WDFW that is your business, I am advocating for my county. I would absolutely support Stevens County to opt out of state management!

If that happened in my county you would likely see deer more carefully managed, predators managed, trapping and hound hunting like there used to be!

 

Just like Idaho etc. I believe the locals will be forced to control the wolf population by any mean possible. Ranchers and livestock etc. owners have no faith that WDFW would do the right thing in protecting them from their wolf problems, but instead would make it a project where they lost more livestock waiting.

Not controlling wolves only make wolves and those in charge less popular, that's the road we are headed down.

[JimmyHoffa]

I do think counties should have some kind of 'override' of WDFW in special cases, especially for predators like wolves and cougars.  Those are the ones that not only affect wildlife, but also livestock, pets and public safety.  Coyotes have aggressive management available and it keeps them in check for localized problems.  But would be nice to have a county be able to authorize a hound season for cats or a wolf cull or even cull of overpopulated deer in residential areas, and not have to fight WDFW (CNW/HSUS/PETA).

[idahohuntr]

It would never happen with our current governor, but I would personally support a position similar to what Idaho's Governor Otter took, preventing Idaho wardens from providing info to the USFWS to prosecute individuals for killing wolves. I would also fully support any sheriff or county commissioner candidate who promised to try and open his county up to responsible predator management!

So your position is that, law enforcement should ignore or abet illegal activity?

State of WA seems out of touch with hunters, ranchers, and rural residents. My personal position, I would strongly support any county that creates their own hunting regulations! Local control by local government! Exactly as I strongly supported Governor Otter. 

Yea - lets have each county set their own hunting regulations, sell their own licenses, run their own good-ol-boy clubs...that would be a disaster far more damaging to hunter opportunity in this state than any level of predators that will ever exist here.

Typical response I bet you love big government also

   It's obvious what the status quo WDFW has gotten us!

I agree that status quo WDFW hasn't gotten us the best possible result, but, Bearpaw, would you actually support county by county control??

Why not township by township?

Why not private land owner by private land owner?

I know our county commissioners and Sheriff, they are good people. The county commissioners have a county wildlife advisory board of which I am a member, I've sat in our meetings, I've seen the wisdom of our members. I know this advisory board would create much better management and hunting opportunities in Stevens County. The members of our advisory board have a vested interest in the outcome, it seems WDFW's interest is mostly monetary and pleasing the I-5 masses.

It's very much like education, do you think Washington DC makes better education policies for your local school or do you trust your local government and school board to make better decisions?

So your county would do a good job with it. Whose to say that all the other 38 counties in Washington would do a good job?

I don't know and I'm not concerned about all the other counties. Your county is your business, if you prefer to keep WDFW that is your business, I am advocating for my county. I would absolutely support Stevens County to opt out of state management!

If that happened in my county you would likely see deer more carefully managed, predators managed, trapping and hound hunting like there used to be!

Counties have no authority to manage wildlife.  There will be no opting out.  This WILL NEVER HAPPEN. 

But just for the heck of it - think of some possible outcomes.  Many western Washington counties ban all hunting - they have very liberal elected officials who are anti hunting.  So - all those folks now have to head east to the remaining open counties - overwhelming your little county.  Since your local slick talking politicians want to get re-elected they do the next sensible thing and severely restrict or stop all non-county residents from hunting in their county because it upsets their voters.  So your county by county management just screwed a huge number of hunters in this state. 

Just one small example of how short sighted this idea is.  In general, I do not support the further politicization of wildlife management, even if I support/agree with the views of those in political power at the time. 

[Bango skank]

I do think counties should have some kind of 'override' of WDFW in special cases, especially for predators like wolves and cougars.  Those are the ones that not only affect wildlife, but also livestock, pets and public safety.  Coyotes have aggressive management available and it keeps them in check for localized problems.  But would be nice to have a county be able to authorize a hound season for cats or a wolf cull or even cull of overpopulated deer in residential areas, and not have to fight WDFW (CNW/HSUS/PETA).

Sure yotes have year round season and night hunting but that can only accomplish so much.  In order to really effectively control their population youd need to do some real heavy trapping, and as far as i know there is no effective yote trapping method that is legal here