Arrow experts, give me your input.

[theleo]

Give me your input on an arrow setup like this,

Shaft: BE Spartan 300 spine cut to 28.5" (9.0 GPI)

Nock: R-nock (10grains) + R-nock bushing (10 grains)

Wrap: 7" reflective Onestringer (11 grains)

Fletching: 4 fletch with 1.5" Vanetec HP's (3.2 grains each) using an Arizone EZ fletch (lots of helical)

Point: 125 grain Broad head (thinking 1.5" Anarchy's this year) + 28 grain insert.

This will be shot out of my Perfexion that's at 74lb, 28" rite now and will be used for elk. Yay or nay? Should be end up rite at or just under 460 grains total when you factor in a few grains for glue. I know that the answer is ultimately  try it and see, but just looking to what the group consensus might be.

[mburrows]

We shoot dang near identical set ups except i use 3.5" wraps and 3 fletch vs 4 fletch.
I just started using the BE spartans and they are flying great.

[Smoke]

why the 4 fletch... ya want to better effect of the helical, I use 3 inch vanes 3 fletch...better spin, less drag..

[RadSav]

Looks good to me.  Not thrilled about the 1.5" vane but as you said "try it and see".  I do have a few questions though -

Q:  Why shoot 28.5" arrows with a draw length of 28"?

Q:  Why use a 7" wrap with 1.5" or 2" vanes?

[theleo]

why the 4 fletch... ya want to better effect of the helical, I use 3 inch vanes 3 fletch...better spin, less drag..

I 4 fletch my arrows so it doesn't matter how I nock them, no cock vane to have to worry about.

[theleo]

Looks good to me.  Not thrilled about the 1.5" vane but as you said "try it and see".  I do have a few questions though -

Q:  Why shoot 28.5" arrows with a draw length of 28"?

Q:  Why use a 7" wrap with 1.5" or 2" vanes?

My current arrows are a shade over 28.5" and put the arrows just a little bit out past the front of my riser, 28.5" should bring them about even with the front and give a little room should I want to play with my draw length.

I got 7" wraps so there's more reflective area to them and they are custom graphics for my mom and aunt who have had cancer. I wanted the graphic to be long enough to make out. 

[RadSav]

Looks good to me.  Not thrilled about the 1.5" vane but as you said "try it and see".  I do have a few questions though -

Q:  Why shoot 28.5" arrows with a draw length of 28"?

Q:  Why use a 7" wrap with 1.5" or 2" vanes?

My current arrows are a shade over 28.5" and put the arrows just a little bit out past the front of my riser, 28.5" should bring them about even with the front and give a little room should I want to play with my draw length.

I got 7" wraps so there's more reflective area to them and they are custom graphics for my mom and aunt who have had cancer. I wanted the graphic to be long enough to make out.

Sounds like your bow is not really 28".  Might want that checked out.  Beyond that...looks good

[theleo]

Sounds like your bow is not really 28".  Might want that checked out.  Beyond that...looks good

I've never known a manufacturer to be dead on with what the draw length is supposed to be. It has mods for 28" on it, the limb stops are where they're supposed to be and the reference marks on the cams are all matching up. I could comfortably shoot it set longer with a trigger release but having it a little short works better for me shooting it with my back tension.

Onestringer sure are easy folks to deal with.


 

[RadSav]

I've never known a manufacturer to be dead on with what the draw length is supposed to be. It has mods for 28" on it, the limb stops are where they're supposed to be and the reference marks on the cams are all matching up. I could comfortably shoot it set longer with a trigger release but having it a little short works better for me shooting it with my back tension.

Shorter is always better than too long.  Try getting set into your anchor and have someone mark the arrow at the plunger hole.  28" Draw should be 26.25" from bottom of string notch on the nock to that mark.  Xpedition claim to always be dead perfect on draw length.  That's why they keep telling D-Rock he can shoot 27.5 instead of his 27".

True Draw length is one of the very first things I check when receiving a new bow.  Always a good idea to know exactly where it is set.  Otherwise you can never truly measure apples to apples.

[theleo]

I've never known a manufacturer to be dead on with what the draw length is supposed to be. It has mods for 28" on it, the limb stops are where they're supposed to be and the reference marks on the cams are all matching up. I could comfortably shoot it set longer with a trigger release but having it a little short works better for me shooting it with my back tension.

Shorter is always better than too long.  Try getting set into your anchor and have someone mark the arrow at the plunger hole.  28" Draw should be 26.25" from bottom of string notch on the nock to that mark.  Xpedition claim to always be dead perfect on draw length.  That's why they keep telling D-Rock he can shoot 27.5 instead of his 27".

True Draw length is one of the very first things I check when receiving a new bow.  Always a good idea to know exactly where it is set.  Otherwise you can never truly measure apples to apples.

If I had D-Rocks draw length I'd be happy shooting shorter ATA bows, but that would mean I'd have to have short little umpa-loompa arms like him.

[RadSav]

If I had D-Rocks draw length I'd be happy shooting shorter ATA bows, but that would mean I'd have to have short little umpa-loompa arms like him.

There are some benefits!

[Reidus]

Looks good to me.  Not thrilled about the 1.5" vane

Radsav, What vane would you prefer and why? Just curious.

[RadSav]

Looks good to me.  Not thrilled about the 1.5" vane

Radsav, What vane would you prefer and why? Just curious.

Even as a two blade broadhead 1.5" is massive and difficult to control.  Add to that a single bevel in a thick blade and that is a lot of challenge for control on the front of the arrow.  Four short little 1.5" vanes are going to be pushed to their limits trying to overcome the challenge from the front.  A 2" vane is going to give much more control to the back end.  Not sure if it truly equates to 25% more control but it should be close.

Now if the OP were to shoot an expandable or something like our VanDyke the 1.5" vane would be much less of an issue.  Still doesn't leave much room for error, but it would be better.

[BullCrazy24]

theleo-
I tried out the Spartans a few months ago. If you don't mind loosing some speed they are a great choice. With that being said I personally switched back to their carnavors. I lost 16 fps with the extra weight of the Spartans. My draw length is a 1\2 in shorter than yours and i  shoot a 26in. arrow. I would check out black eagle carnivore .001 and give Randy or his team a call. They were very helpfull and knowledgeable when I made the switch over. (855) 448-6823

[theleo]

Looks good to me.  Not thrilled about the 1.5" vane

Radsav, What vane would you prefer and why? Just curious.

Even as a two blade broadhead 1.5" is massive and difficult to control.  Add to that a single bevel in a thick blade and that is a lot of challenge for control on the front of the arrow.  Four short little 1.5" vanes are going to be pushed to their limits trying to overcome the challenge from the front.  A 2" vane is going to give much more control to the back end.  Not sure if it truly equates to 25% more control but it should be close.

Now if the OP were to shoot an expandable or something like our VanDyke the 1.5" vane would be much less of an issue.  Still doesn't leave much room for error, but it would be better.

The 1.5" vanes I'm not entirely sure of either especially with my broadhead choice. I have a pile of 2" Vanetec vanes to use should the 1.5's not work. I've looked at your broadheads online but from what I understand from reading on here is they are only sold through archery shops and not online. I don't have a retailer near me that I can find, so it rules them out. I head over to Idaho for my hunting so even if I wanted to use mechanicals they're still against the law there. I do appreciate your input though.

[theleo]

theleo-
I tried out the Spartans a few months ago. If you don't mind loosing some speed they are a great choice. With that being said I personally switched back to their carnavors. I lost 16 fps with the extra weight of the Spartans. My draw length is a 1\2 in shorter than yours and i  shoot a 26in. arrow. I would check out black eagle carnivore .001 and give Randy or his team a call. They were very helpfull and knowledgeable when I made the switch over. (855) 448-6823

I'm not overly worried about speed. If I'm around 280 fps or a little over, that's plenty for me. My setup from last year was going around 265 fps and the elk didn't make it but 50 yards.

[Torrent50]

Looks good to me.  Not thrilled about the 1.5" vane

Radsav, What vane would you prefer and why? Just curious.

Even as a two blade broadhead 1.5" is massive and difficult to control.  Add to that a single bevel in a thick blade and that is a lot of challenge for control on the front of the arrow.  Four short little 1.5" vanes are going to be pushed to their limits trying to overcome the challenge from the front.  A 2" vane is going to give much more control to the back end.  Not sure if it truly equates to 25% more control but it should be close.

Now if the OP were to shoot an expandable or something like our VanDyke the 1.5" vane would be much less of an issue.  Still doesn't leave much room for error, but it would be better.

The 1.5" vanes I'm not entirely sure of either especially with my broadhead choice. I have a pile of 2" Vanetec vanes to use should the 1.5's not work. I've looked at your broadheads online but from what I understand from reading on here is they are only sold through archery shops and not online. I don't have a retailer near me that I can find, so it rules them out. I head over to Idaho for my hunting so even if I wanted to use mechanicals they're still against the law there. I do appreciate your input though.

I think you can order the Savora's online thru Phelps Game Calls.

[RadSav]

RAD Broadheads can be purchased through Phelps, Jakes Archery, Carpsniper2 and many other retailers.  There will be other sources coming very soon as well.  Come June when the new cards have arrived and our 2016 programs really start rolling it should be much easier to find.  But those three do a great job.

[theleo]

RAD Broadheads can be purchased through Phelps, Jakes Archery, Carpsniper2 and many other retailers.  There will be other sources coming very soon as well.  Come June when the new cards have arrived and our 2016 programs really start rolling it should be much easier to find.  But those three do a great job.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely buy some and give them a whirl. My main reason for trying the Anarchy's is just to see what damage a single bevel does.

[RadSav]

Single bevels are interesting.  If you look at the original razor drawing of both Savora and Maleski you see they both saw some benefits to single beveled blades.  But, even though there were some benefits and they are super easy to make the negatives out-weighed too much of the gain for those two designers.  If the blade is thick it leads to challenges on the front end of the arrow that can be a bit much.  And the hone on the edge is fragile unless the blade is very stout.

I say "Have at it!" if that is something you want to check out for yourself.  Nothing wrong with that.  I used a lot of heads as I was learning and growing in the industry.  A guy can read all he wants, but writers rarely understand what makes a broadhead great.  You will learn a lot from getting out there and shooting them.  Plus it's fun to learn and play with different things.

One thing I will warn you up front in regards to short blade/wide cut heads.  Be very careful with angled shots.  I would love to have a nice pretty short point on our MadMan, Triple Sec. and DelMastro heads.  But blade skipping is a real life concern.  And if you are like me it will happen at the absolute worst time!  Had I waited for a real solid broadside shot when shooting short and wide heads I'd very likely have the Oregon state record Blackbear and perhaps a top ten Roosevelt.  Instead I took what is a favorite "45 degree away" shots and it was too much for the short blade/no extended tip head I was shooting back then.  When you hear the zipper noise and see all the hair you'll know the angle was too steep.  And you'll never ever forget that noise...trust me.  I still hear it in my reoccurring nightmares.

[theleo]

One thing I will warn you up front in regards to short blade/wide cut heads.  Be very careful with angled shots.  I would love to have a nice pretty short point on our MadMan, Triple Sec. and DelMastro heads.  But blade skipping is a real life concern.  And if you are like me it will happen at the absolute worst time!  Had I waited for a real solid broadside shot when shooting short and wide heads I'd very likely have the Oregon state record Blackbear and perhaps a top ten Roosevelt.  Instead I took what is a favorite "45 degree away" shots and it was too much for the short blade/no extended tip head I was shooting back then.  When you hear the zipper noise and see all the hair you'll know the angle was too steep.  And you'll never ever forget that noise...trust me.  I still hear it in my reoccurring nightmares.

I have a tendency to take shots where broadhead design doesn't matter all that much (40 and in with essentially a complete broadside), I save breaking bones and weird shot angles for rifle tags. I do like the looks of the Van Dyke  and Mad Man heads and will give them a whirl when I get to the broadhead stage. I'll likely take some of the recommendations you guys put on here and go with a shorter arrow. I have mods on the way to try my bow at a 1/2" longer draw. Once I settle that debate it will be arrow building time! 

[RadSav]

I've always liked that both lungs/opposite shoulder shot.  Keeps me clear of the scapula and resulting kills are usually extremely fast.  But as a bowhunter on public land the ideal position of the animal isn't always up to me.  And then there is uphill/downhill shots that can be a skipping challenge as well.

I remember back in the day when Muzzy first hit the market no one would shoot them.  The big long point seemed excessive.  The WASP Cam-Lok point was just about too much for most western hunters to accept.  But, back then most all your broadheads were long bladed.  Even the 1.5" Rocky Mountain Supreme and Rothaar Snuffers were longer than they were wide by a good margin.  I loved the look and style of those old heads, but we were shooting 220fps.  240 fps was crazy fast!!

When our bows and lighter arrows started to increase in speed the need for shorter blade heads became apparent.  Many manufacturers attempted to make short heads with short little needle points.  They looked great and flew even better.  The American Broadhead Co. made one of the most outstanding heads for flight and penetration.  It looked good and flew even better.  But as more and more hunters took them to the field we saw more and more failures.  Bowhunters started switching to the Muzzy in huge numbers.  Most of my friends called them Fugglys instead of Muzzys because of their lack of traditional grace.  However ugly they were they eliminated the skips and glances.  Long points were "In" and for good reason.

Discipline in the field is a good thing.  Knowing what shots to take and what shots not to take is a commendable trait in a bowhunter.  However, I find that still hunting and bugling on public land doesn't always afford many perfect opportunities.  And limiting your angle of opportunity can mean eating a tag when you wouldn't have needed to with a wider margin of angle error.  WASP, NAP, Muzzy, RAD...we are all using longer points on our heads these days.  Not so much because we like the look.  But because we try to design what we don't want out of a head as much as we try to design what we do want into them.  And the wider the margin of error we can design into the head the better it should be for our customers.

[theleo]

Discipline in the field is a good thing.  Knowing what shots to take and what shots not to take is a commendable trait in a bowhunter.  However, I find that still hunting and bugling on public land doesn't always afford many perfect opportunities. 

It's not discipline, it's a different mind set. I don't hunt a week for a big bull, a spike, or a cow. I hunt a week for 1 good shot at a legal animal. Meat and horns are a bonus that I very much enjoy, but my goal is always 1 good shot. I still have a lot to learn as an archery hunter, but my goal from the beginning has been that all I want every year is 1 good shot for me to screw up. Admittedly, hunting in Idaho with an OTC any elk tag puts things in my favor along with hunting elk that see very little pressure, but hunting solo and picky shot selection offer plenty of challenge.

[RadSav]

I still have a lot to learn as an archery hunter, but my goal from the beginning has been that all I want every year is 1 good shot for me to screw up.

One of the reasons I never made it as a pro baseball player.  I was a sucker for that first pitch fastball in my eyes.   Kind of carried over to my hunting, I guess.