2x2 Bucks only in Roosevelt, Harrington, and Steptoe

[bobcat]

I just noticed these muzzleloader permits listed for 2009. Has anybody else seen this? There may be some for modern firearm and archery as well, I will look when I get a chance.

Roosevelt A Sept. 26 - Oct. 16 ONLY 2 pt. x 2 pt. Bucks GMU 133 20
Harrington A Sept. 26 - Oct. 16 ONLY 2 pt. x 2 pt. Bucks GMU 136 20
Steptoe A Sept. 26 - Oct. 16 ONLY 2 pt. x 2 pt. Bucks GMU 139  20

[whacker1]

Interesting.....  Many of the locals complain of great big Mule Deer 2pts.  Some of the local theory is that the 3 pt min for Modern takes place before the rut, which leaves the 2 pts in the open country to breed, and over time the genetics end up driving to lots of big 2pts.  So they believed that if you were to get rid of the old large 2 pts that this would give some that have better genetics to breed in November.   Not sure if it is scientifically valid, but it is some of the local argument.

[270Shooter]

I thought that they should do this in the entiat units

[bobcat]

I thought it was interesting that they did that too. I looked and I don't see any other permits for 2 point only bucks. Since they did this in three units, I am surprised they didn't do it in more units (like the Entiat.) Maybe there will be more like this next year.

[huntnphool]

Well its about damn time they figured this out, I have suggested this for a number of years. The dissapointing part of it is they could have really helped their image if they had made this a youth hunt.

[huntnphool]

Are they going to be counting brow tines as points? Here is a good example of a buck that needs to be taken out of the gene pool.

[bobcat]

I don't know. I looked and didn't see anything specifically defining what is considered a 2x2. So I'm assuming a 2 point with eye guards would count as a 3 point and wouldn't be legal for the 2x2 permit season.

Antler Restrictions: APPLIES TO ALL HUNTERS DURING ANY GENERAL SEASON AND
DESIGNATED SPECIAL PERMIT SEASONS((!)). Buck deer taken in antler
restricted GMUs must meet minimum antler point requirements.
Minimum antler point requirements are antler points on one side
only. Eye guards are antler points when they are at least one
inch long.

[yelp]

This is out of the survey, that assisted the proposal process...hence the proposed seasons..

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/final_surveysummary_10272008.pdf

19. ISSUE 34: Mule Deer Antler Point Restrictions BACKGROUND: The current 3-point antler restriction for mule deer buck
hunting seasons varies in its effectiveness. The intent of the restriction is to provide adequate survival of a cross section of
age classes, including yearling bucks, through the hunting season. The effectiveness of this antler restriction is related to how
open the habitat is, as well as whether the local mule deer populations are migratory or relatively stationary. In some places
where habitat is open and bucks are highly vulnerable, WDFW research has shown that 90% of 1.5 year-old bucks that exhibit a
legal buck antler configuration are killed. In many of these same locations, bucks surviving past the hunting season are made
up entirely of yearling bucks. In these situations, different hunting season structures might be more effective in producing older
age classes, given the habitat and the local mule deer population dynamics. In some Districts, the current 3-point minimum
antler restriction would continue to be used. In other Districts, other approaches to hunting season structure might be
necessary. Which of the following alternatives do you prefer?

ALTERNATIVES:
Response
Percent
Response
Count
Change one PMU to 2 point or less,
with mature mule deer bucks by
special permit only, and monitor for
three years.46.2% 1836

No change; retain 3 point antler
restriction for all mule deer hunting.
41.8% 1659

No preference. 12.0% 477

Comments: 258
answered question 3971
skipped question 1009

[yelp]

Well its about damn time they figured this out, I have suggested this for a number of years. The dissapointing part of it is they could have really helped their image if they had made this a youth hunt.

I would like them to give out some prehunt education on what these mature 2-points look like, so that the permitees aren't harvesting yearling bucks.  Kids tend to shoot what is available unless they are with someone to say shoot that one. I think some type of education would be helpful..I also think they should have added more permits to have an affect genetically. 

[huntnphool]

I also think they should have added more permits to have an affect genetically. 

Not sure what good that would do, you would then be limiting the number of these genetically deficient deer to the number of permits handed out, I think there are more of these deer out there than they think.

[bobcat]

yelp, thanks for posting that. What I find interesting now is that they didn't follow any of the alternatives listed, as "mature mule deer bucks" are NOT "by special permit only" in those units.

[whacker1]

We are all assuming that WDFW is using science to come up with the 2 pt only scenario.....  Maybe it went down in a closed office like this....2 characters - WDFW 1 & WDFW 2...."Hey Man, I just came up with an idea.  I bet we could mess with all of  the states hunters by adding a 2 pt only hunt.  What do you mean?  Well the hunters have been giving us input for years on what they would prefer to have for season and permit, which we typically don't listen to, so why not pretend that we are listening and make a bunch of changes that most people don't really want.  Like a 2 pt only hunt...It will appear like the changes make it look like we care what they want and actually deserve.  What do you think?" 

And that is an accurate depiction of how WDFW made the changes this year...

[colockumelk]

They need to make a 2pt minimum youth hunt in the LT Murray.  Except make it a youth hunt in November.  There's a bunch of mature 2 pt bucks in there.  I know of one personally that is easily 24" wide.  Last year he was about 22" wide.  He will never be a 3 pt or more and needs to be taken out of the gene pool.  It's like someone said in that area most of the 3pts and 4 pts are killed every year because there's alot of road access and its wide open country.  So the only ones left to breed are the permanent 2pts. 

[yelp]

Without going permit only...The unite they are trying this experiment in are also largely private land in Lincoln County....Which may have a different affect when talking hunting pressure compared to like Okanogan County.

We have to work within general seasons with antler restrictions and I feel that 3 pt or better is a great tool for herd recovery after tough winters...but it seems overtime we maybe culling out the 3 pts (especially in heavily hunted public land units (i.e. Okanogan County)). The large mature 2 pts should be targeted through general harvest or permit to keep them from spreading the genetics of 2 pt only, which I believe is the goal of this experiment  

The other option I was thinking of is..I see  open it (GMU) up to any buck for a few years... then bring an antler restirciton back of some sort.  I think most hunters would harvest smaller bucks knowing they can harvest them, this would cull out the mature 2 pts and young bucks so recruitement would be hampered for a few seasons but this may create a higher percentage of  3 pt/betters to do the breeding.  

Without going to something like Desert A  (where you have control)..I think the premise of the experiment is to target mature 2 pts to keep them from breeding does.

Just thinking out load...maybe I'm crazy...I do see a lot of mature two points on winter range breeding does for the last 10 years...what effect is it having???  Not sure.  

[bowhunterforever]

I think they should make the 2 point special hunts for the youths!