2x2 Bucks only in Roosevelt, Harrington, and Steptoe

[boneaddict]

No problem Goldtip.... I don't understand your December thinking though

[boneaddict]

want to really fire up this debate......why not open it back up to any deer for archery.   LOL

[bankwalker]

want to really fire up this debate......why not open it back up to any deer for archery.   LOL

hell with the amount of doe's ive seen i none weekend trip we might as well. still wont be that many doe's taken. everyone i know that hunts mule deer if for one reason and thats to take a 150"+ buck.

[bankwalker]

2pt or better or any buck would not be for long

You do realize that does carry %50 of the gene package right.

yup i sure do.

BUT if oyu get rid of those bucks with the 2pt gene then that cuts that % down alot to have more bucks with only 2pt genes.

kinda like playing the lotto....the more people you get out of playing the better chance you have of scoring it big.

i aint that stupid   

the more weak factors (2pt genes) you eliminate from the gene pool, the better the herd will be.

having deer with weak antler growth is not a problem. having a bunch of mature 3pt's or 150" or smaller mature bucks is not a problem.

everyone knows that the amount of mature 2pts is getting big. you all post pics every year of multiple huge 2pts that obviously will not get any bigger. those deer need to be taken out of the gene pool. every year they pass on those genes just adds to the % of the bucks that will not get any bigger then being a 2pt. weather the doe has anything to do with it or not. even if 50% of does have the gene. well if all those 50% of does get bread by bucks with the 2pt gene, then that adds up. and will continue to add up.


everyone is so quick to jump on the quick fix solution.

shut down all the units, make it permit only, or youth hunts only.



 

[bankwalker]

i really think as a migration stand point the 3pt or better has been working. all the pics on this site prove that.

its the areas without migration that need the work.

[GoldTip]

Well Bone, my December thinking is simply this.  If we maintain the 3 point minimum at least if we hunted December, then the large bucks that are currently present would have had a chance to pass on their genes prior to being hunted.  Yes, they would also more likely be yarded up as well, which could also pose a problem, but a lot of that Roosevelt country I hunt, doesn't see much snow on a normal year anyway.  If they had the current timeframe season and made it doe only by draw this would even further bring the buck doe ratio closer together prior to the rut and then the 3 point and better bucks would still be around to breed come estrous, as opposed to having been already whacked by me, you and the next guy.  Thats my thought process for December buck hunting if we stay with the 3 point minimum.

[boneaddict]

What would those governor tag guys do with all that orange out there.  LOL

[GoldTip]

Good point.......LOL

[whacker1]

I have posed the question about December as well in various conversations.  For Elk we archery hunt during the bugle, Muzzleload on the tail end (typically 3rd estrus cycle) of the bugle and rifle hunt after they have had a chance to breed.   If we use a 3 pt min for Mule Deer, why not have the rifle season take place after the Rut?  I am not sure that it would be good for every unit, but it would be interesting to see the outcome for a few units.  I spend a great deal of time in Lincoln county, but don't hunt much in that area, because of this 2 x 2 issue and limited public ground.   I even have access to good private ground in Lincoln County, but I would rather spend my time elsewhere.  I do see some nice bucks in the summer (140 - 160) there, but the majority are taken by archers and muzzleloaders.

I don't have any biology background, so much of the dialogue for this thread has been a good thought provoking material for me, and I like hearing the various thought processes on different management ideas. 

My opinion is that we have always had a much larger human population than many of our neighboring states and it makes it more difficult to support the game other states support based on the number of huntable acres/habitat for said game population & human population.  We have many other challenges some other states don't face including different tribal arrangements and political environment.

I would like to see some changes from WDFW on a trial basis for a few units to see if they can have success with some other biologically supported ideas on game management.  I hope for some new ideas, because some of the existing programs aren't working.  Letting Elk die in the Mudflows due to lack of habitat/feed and then lowering the number of tags is unacceptable.  It isn't rocket science to determine that the blast zone trees are all recovering from 1980, so the trees are all virtually the same age and much more dense than they were prior to the Eruption of St. Helens.  WDFW either needs to thin the herd to manage habitat or clear some areas in the habitat for the purpose of growing feed, so it can support a larger population of healthy animals.    Neither is happening currently.  Sorry this last part was a bit of thread-jacking, but I was trying to illustrate that we are ready for some change in the methodology to current management practices.

Thank you everyone for sharing input - It is obvious that we won't be solving the WDFW's problems on this forum, but there are a lot of thought provoking ideas being floated.

[boneaddict]

biggest threat would be escapement.  Sort of like fishing treblehooks in a net pen.  The largest slaughter that we have seen and the most devastating event to trophy hunting mature Bucks happened because the hunt extended late and weatlher came early.  Granted this was pastially due to the rut begining, but think about how crowded it is now.  That is with a majority of the Natioanl forest and everything else.  Look how crowded archery season WAS in the Swakane.  Thats with THOUSANDS less hunters.Anyhow not a good idea.  Don't even want to know what the added stress would be like on he winter range.

[WDFW-SUX]

I bet we could kill 90% of the deer in Washington state if we had a season in December.......can you emagine all the meat we would have! SWEET.

[boneaddict]

Certainly would eliminate vehicle deer collisions on 97 and a few other roads.

[bankwalker]

Certainly would eliminate vehicle deer collisions on 97 and a few other roads.

isnt that the prime objective 

[boneaddict]

Wolves might do it for us, maybe we should get ours first.

[bankwalker]

true.

my hunting was over in methow last weekend camping and said he cut a few different sets (of 3) of tracks. they were in the same general area so it could have been the same 3. idk. but that is 3 to many.