Dog Shopping TABOO.

[CoryTDF]

After having my comments deleted from another thread I decided to start my own. I have been a HW member since 2009 and a Lab owner my entire life. I have been active in AKC Hunt Tests and train regularly. I really love the breed. I also love this site. Many of the people here have been a great help to me. I would hate to see them fall victim to a bad breeding and possibly deal with the pain that I once had to deal with.

I notice that there is not a large wealth of knowledge out there about the dangers of irresponsible breeding. I myself once bought a dog from a newspaper and after 6K in medical bills trying to fix his genetic hip problems he ended up dying at 3 years old. Many of you will remember when I was trying to save my dog BOONE as many of my HW friends were going through that with me as I kept an updated thread.

So, is wrong to ask anybody who posts a breeding on an open forum to show proof of the clearances? I say absolutely not. This is a common practice at places like retrievertraining.net 

What do you guys think?

Here is a bit of information on it.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?92040-ofa-eic-cerf-cnm

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/clearances.html

 

[h20hunter]

I think it is up to the seller on how they word their ad and what they provide upfront. Obviously,  it would be in the best interest of the seller to provide that upfront but ultimately it is up to buyer and seller to discuss. Asking is perfectly fine with me if done in an non disparaging way that could detract from someone's ad.

 

[CoryTDF]

I think it is up to the seller on how they word their ad and what they provide upfront. Obviously,  it would be in the best interest of the seller to provide that upfront but ultimately it is up to buyer and seller to discuss. Asking is perfectly fine with me if done in an non disparaging way that could detract from someone's ad.

 

It would not detract from the add if it was in there to begin with. Also, who cares if it does? That information is vital to making sure that you are buying a healthy dog. If the seller forgets to add it or has not had the screenings then hopefully it hurts sales so much they quit breeding until they completed the necessary/responsible steps.   

[jackelope]

After having my comments deleted from another thread I decided to start my own. I have been a HW member since 2009 and a Lab owner my entire life. I have been active in AKC Hunt Tests and train regularly. I really love the breed. I also love this site. Many of the people here have been a great help to me. I would hate to see them fall victim to a bad breeding and possibly deal with the pain that I once had to deal with.

I notice that there is not a large wealth of knowledge out there about the dangers of irresponsible breeding. I myself once bought a dog from a newspaper and after 6K in medical bills trying to fix his genetic hip problems he ended up dying at 3 years old. Many of you will remember when I was trying to save my dog BOONE as many of my HW friends were going through that with me as I kept an updated thread.

So, is wrong to ask anybody who posts a breeding on an open forum to show proof of the clearances? I say absolutely not. This is a common practice at places like retrievertraining.net 

What do you guys think?

I don't think it's wrong at all to ask. Anyone shopping for a high dollar dog should know what to look for. Did you read the PM response I sent you before posting this?
The problem I had with your post wasn't what you asked. It was how you asked it. Also the guy clearly stated if there were any questions, send him a pm. For the sake of conversation, I can add the post you made that I deleted if you'd like, just for clarification. If you're trying to make a mod look bad, lets air it all out.
Just throwing that out there.

[JJB11B]

You should have to get a permit through the city, the county, the state, and federal govt. to bread animals, AND you should have to pay 40% tax on all money earned from selling puppies.

[CoryTDF]

After having my comments deleted from another thread I decided to start my own. I have been a HW member since 2009 and a Lab owner my entire life. I have been active in AKC Hunt Tests and train regularly. I really love the breed. I also love this site. Many of the people here have been a great help to me. I would hate to see them fall victim to a bad breeding and possibly deal with the pain that I once had to deal with.

I notice that there is not a large wealth of knowledge out there about the dangers of irresponsible breeding. I myself once bought a dog from a newspaper and after 6K in medical bills trying to fix his genetic hip problems he ended up dying at 3 years old. Many of you will remember when I was trying to save my dog BOONE as many of my HW friends were going through that with me as I kept an updated thread.

So, is wrong to ask anybody who posts a breeding on an open forum to show proof of the clearances? I say absolutely not. This is a common practice at places like retrievertraining.net 

What do you guys think?

I don't think it's wrong at all to ask. Anyone shopping for a high dollar dog should know what to look for. Did you read the PM response I sent you before posting this?
The problem I had with your post wasn't what you asked. It was how you asked it. Also the guy clearly stated if there were any questions, send him a pm. For the sake of conversation, I can add the post you made that I deleted if you'd like, just for clarification. If you're trying to make a mod look bad, lets air it all out.
Just throwing that out there.

You're funny. Get off your horse there bud. Not trying to make you look bad. I am trying to make anybody who would post dogs for $500+ without posting proper clearances look bad though. This was done to me once on the RTF forum as well. I fixed myself and was educated. I believe that is should be a forum requirement before posting. This forum makes you become a sponsor before you can even post. One might say that it's more about making a buck off a breeding than making sure that the breeding is legit.

[JJB11B]

Hurry and get it all off your chest before this thread gets locked too

[jackelope]

After having my comments deleted from another thread I decided to start my own. I have been a HW member since 2009 and a Lab owner my entire life. I have been active in AKC Hunt Tests and train regularly. I really love the breed. I also love this site. Many of the people here have been a great help to me. I would hate to see them fall victim to a bad breeding and possibly deal with the pain that I once had to deal with.

I notice that there is not a large wealth of knowledge out there about the dangers of irresponsible breeding. I myself once bought a dog from a newspaper and after 6K in medical bills trying to fix his genetic hip problems he ended up dying at 3 years old. Many of you will remember when I was trying to save my dog BOONE as many of my HW friends were going through that with me as I kept an updated thread.

So, is wrong to ask anybody who posts a breeding on an open forum to show proof of the clearances? I say absolutely not. This is a common practice at places like retrievertraining.net 

What do you guys think?

I don't think it's wrong at all to ask. Anyone shopping for a high dollar dog should know what to look for. Did you read the PM response I sent you before posting this?
The problem I had with your post wasn't what you asked. It was how you asked it. Also the guy clearly stated if there were any questions, send him a pm. For the sake of conversation, I can add the post you made that I deleted if you'd like, just for clarification. If you're trying to make a mod look bad, lets air it all out.
Just throwing that out there.

You're funny. Get off your horse there bud. Not trying to make you look bad. I am trying to make anybody who would post dogs for $500+ without posting proper clearances look bad though. This was done to me one on the RTF forum as well. I fixed myself and was educated. I believe that is should be a forum requirement before posting. This forum makes you become a sponsor before you can even post. One might say that it's more about making a buck off a breeding than making sure that the breeding is legit.

I'm 110% right there with you in everything you say.
I will add though, that this is not a dog breeding or selling website. This is a hunting forum. It's not our job to police the things people sell for quality, fair price, etc. We have some rules set in place that the owner put forth. It's my volunteer job to make sure those rules get enforced. One of them is no negative comments. A simple.... "Do the dogs have these XYZ certifications?" would have sufficed and I wouldn't have even blinked. I didn't even delete it until 4 other moderators agreed that it should be deleted.

[jackelope]

Hurry and get it all off your chest before this thread gets locked too

No reason that would happen at this point.

[BD1]

If it is about doing the right thing then why put a dollar amount on it i.e.$500+  A person needs to educate themselves before buying any animal. As far as what a breeder must provide in an ad...I agree with H2O...they are free to provide whatever information they want in an ad...from there it is up to the buyer to ask the questions and the seller to provide the answers. Just my 2 pennies

[Colville]

Should the forum then assume the responsibility of verifying those certs? What if they end up being fake? Should they require a car fax to post a car? Perk test for land? The forum owner would be insane to set standards for sales that it can then be sued for failing to properly enforce 100% of the time.

No. Adults ade capable of investigating, resaerching and making conclusions about the merits of a purchase without the forum acting as a filter.

When did we become helpless as a breed?

[h20hunter]

Oh-Bama did it. Just trying to bring a little levity. Our OP is clearly passionate which I applaud.  As a general forum the classified rules are pretty basic. Needing exacting details per add regardless of subject matter would be unenforceable.  Sites specific to breeding with more strict guidelines make sense.

[CoryTDF]

Should the forum then assume the responsibility of verifying those certs? What if they end up being fake? Should they require a car fax to post a car? Perk test for land? The forum owner would be insane to set standards for sales that it can then be sued for failing to properly enforce 100% of the time.

No. Adults ade capable of investigating, resaerching and making conclusions about the merits of a purchase without the forum acting as a filter.

When did we become helpless as a breed?

Go look at the RTF forum. It requires all of that regardless of the price of the dog. Some of the countries best dogs are bought and sold there. Your worry about lawsuits is silly. This forum makes sure that you pay to become a sponsor before you are even allowed to post a breeding. Trust me I have been through that here. If they are going to make you pay why not require that you have some certifications. The numbers that coincide with those certifications are easy to look up and verify by the buyers. It is a pretty simple thing to add really. 

What is the problem with adopting a very simple and effective procedure that other reputable and respected forums have been using for years? Heaven forbid a positive change was made to any part HW!

Guess that the 20 year old kid who never new to look for this stuff deserves to watch his dog drown during an EIC episode. Or as in my families case, we deserved to watch our dog go through painful surgeries and ultimately die because when I was 24 I didn't know about these things. Only stupid helpless people get duped by bad silver tonged breeders right? So we should not make any attempt at all to try and help those helpless idiots.... Your attitude is disheartening. 

[jackelope]

Should the forum then assume the responsibility of verifying those certs? What if they end up being fake? Should they require a car fax to post a car? Perk test for land? The forum owner would be insane to set standards for sales that it can then be sued for failing to properly enforce 100% of the time.

No. Adults ade capable of investigating, resaerching and making conclusions about the merits of a purchase without the forum acting as a filter.

When did we become helpless as a breed?

Go look at the RTF forum. It requires all of that regardless of the price of the dog. Some of the countries best dogs are bought and sold there. Your worry about lawsuits is silly. This forum makes sure that you pay to become a sponsor before you are even allowed to post a breeding. Trust me I have been through that here. If they are going to make you pay why not require that you have some certifications. The numbers that coincide with those certifications are easy to look up and verify by the buyers. It is a pretty simple thing to add really. 

What is the problem with adopting a very simple and effective procedure that other reputable and respected forums have been using for years? Heaven forbid a positive change was made to any part HW!

Guess that the 20 year old kid who never new to look for this stuff deserves to watch his dog drown during an EIC episode. Or as in my families case, we deserved to watch our dog go through painful surgeries and ultimately die because when I was 24 I didn't know about these things. Only stupid helpless people get duped by bad silver tonged breeders right? So we should not make any attempt at all to try and help those helpless idiots.... Your attitude is disheartening. 

This is not a dog forum. We don't have the country's best dogs for sale here.
The reason folks pay to become a sponsor to sell dogs here is simply out of respect for the breeders who do pay for sponsorship and have businesses as breeders. Why would we want to allow them to be undercut by others who don't pay to sponsor?
I don't want to discount what you're saying, but it's not our responsibility. Buyer beware. Do your due diligence before buying.

[Becky]

Should the forum then assume the responsibility of verifying those certs? What if they end up being fake? Should they require a car fax to post a car? Perk test for land? The forum owner would be insane to set standards for sales that it can then be sued for failing to properly enforce 100% of the time.

No. Adults ade capable of investigating, resaerching and making conclusions about the merits of a purchase without the forum acting as a filter.

When did we become helpless as a breed?

Go look at the RTF forum. It requires all of that regardless of the price of the dog. Some of the countries best dogs are bought and sold there. Your worry about lawsuits is silly. This forum makes sure that you pay to become a sponsor before you are even allowed to post a breeding. Trust me I have been through that here. If they are going to make you pay why not require that you have some certifications. The numbers that coincide with those certifications are easy to look up and verify by the buyers. It is a pretty simple thing to add really. 

What is the problem with adopting a very simple and effective procedure that other reputable and respected forums have been using for years? Heaven forbid a positive change was made to any part HW!

Guess that the 20 year old kid who never new to look for this stuff deserves to watch his dog drown during an EIC episode. Or as in my families case, we deserved to watch our dog go through painful surgeries and ultimately die because when I was 24 I didn't know about these things. Only stupid helpless people get duped by bad silver tonged breeders right? So we should not make any attempt at all to try and help those helpless idiots.... Your attitude is disheartening.

A dog forum requires certifications from breeders, hmm, probably because it's a dog forum solely based on dogs and dog breeding. Imagine that.

Sorry but you're having a huge issue on a Craigslist- style anonymous classified listing. It's not the forum owner's responsibility to pay money to research every person who posts in classified. There is trade counts review listings provided, there are site-ad fees for commercial sellers (not just dog breeders), and basic rules for everyone to follow.

If you want to educate, please do. Post up information all you want, but putting blame on the forum is completely misplaced. You're over exaggerating a lot. Obviously no one deserves bad things to happen to them, but you're comparing apples to oranges.